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Thread: Grounding boxes - The real deal

  1. #281
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

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    Quote Originally Posted by jandl100 View Post
    Well, that's the basis of the patent system - the desire to protect your design from competitors who could take advantage of your insight, time and effort.
    Yes. but I'm not asking for a detailed blueprint on its design (obviously), just a basic description of its intended functionality, in clearly defined and unambiguous terms.

    If the product's been designed for the right reasons, and has a genuine purpose, other than that of creating a placebo effect, or simply a 'cash cow' for its maker, or anyone else who stands to profit from sales, then there's no reason why that information shouldn't be forthcoming.

    Marco.
    http://www.thestainedglasscompany.com

    "A man is a success if he gets up in the morning and gets to bed at night, and in between he does what he wants to do" -- Milan Kundera.

    BE HAPPY EVERYDAY!

  2. #282
    Join Date: Jan 2008

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stratmangler View Post
    Marco hasn't said so - I've been following this thread quite closely, purely because of the comedy potential.
    Yes, just to be clear, I haven't used one of these grounding boxes, so there are no testimonials here from me. No idea how it was perceived differently

    Marco.
    http://www.thestainedglasscompany.com

    "A man is a success if he gets up in the morning and gets to bed at night, and in between he does what he wants to do" -- Milan Kundera.

    BE HAPPY EVERYDAY!

  3. #283
    Join Date: Mar 2018

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    I'm Joe.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stratmangler View Post
    Marco hasn't said so - I've been following this thread quite closely, purely because of the comedy potential.



    See my comment above.
    I'm sure Marco hasn't heard one, going on this thread.

  4. #284
    Join Date: Jan 2008

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyrus View Post
    Issue being that when the science is revealed (if it even exists) then the true cost of making one of these up will be revealed. This is when the cloak of tomfoolery will be removed and the cashflow will end.
    That's why no-one is forthcoming with the details. This game is all too common in the hifi lark, shamefully.
    Then *IF* that is the case, and I'm not saying it is, the truth deserves to be outed, and I wouldn't want such devices promoted on AoS, as it's fundamentally against our ethos. The focus here is, and always will be, on genuine, high-quality equipment, delivering the highest SPPV.

    Marco.
    http://www.thestainedglasscompany.com

    "A man is a success if he gets up in the morning and gets to bed at night, and in between he does what he wants to do" -- Milan Kundera.

    BE HAPPY EVERYDAY!

  5. #285
    Join Date: Feb 2008

    Location: Down South

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    I'm Neal.

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    To go off topic for a moment....I spent a few hours off grid yesterday. I unplugged as many smps wall warts and devices with smps inbuilt as I could, turned off the WiFi, all phones and tablets / PCís etc. I initially thought there was an improvement but later on as I started to plug stuff back in I had to be honest and note the sound was much the same as before.

    If there was an improvement it must be very subtle to none existent as it eluded me. I can only draw the conclusion that my system seems to be immune from any major effects of smps and RFI...which is quite comforting as its one less thing to be concerned about. One positive is Iíve removed a number of unused wall wart PSUs and computers that I no longer require, going on the principle that even if I canít detect an improvement less is more!
    Listening in a Foo free Zone...

    Only a Sith deals in absolutes.

  6. #286
    Join Date: Feb 2008

    Location: Down South

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    I'm Neal.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    I'm talking about basic engineering or electrical principles. If this product's function is founded upon neither, then how can it genuinely work? And if it doesn't genuinely work, then quite simply it's snake oil. That's why more transparency is needed, in terms of how it's been designed and what it attempts to address.

    You can only measure something, if you know *exactly* what to measure, and moreover, you can only show the subsequent measurements if what you've measured actually works!

    The fact is, no-one's asking what the components are, which combine to produce this 'grounding box', or how to make one and copy it; merely its basic design principles and how it's intended to function. Therefore, that information should be more than forthcoming from the manufacturer concerned and/or the dealer(s) selling them (I'm not just talking about Tony's product here), in CLEAR and SIMPLE terms.

    Otherwise the obvious question is: what is there to hide?

    Marco.
    I’m impressed! Totally agree.
    Listening in a Foo free Zone...

    Only a Sith deals in absolutes.

  7. #287
    Join Date: Mar 2017

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    I'm Dennis.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pharos View Post

    "The prejudice I was referring to was in relation to the propensity of staunch objectivists to arrogantly dismiss everything that doesn't fit with their scientific belief system"

    What actually is gong on, is a corruption of the scientific method to provide comfort to the espouser; they are not usually entirely objective, and mask their lack of intellectual rigour with a stance of arrogant aggression.

    From Marco; You're last sentence, however, is especially revealing and rather interesting. Would you say that this "cultural norm" has bred the type of arrogant aggression and dogma, often displayed on forums by 'engineering types'/objectivists? Also, what caused this "cultural norm" to start with, and which also appears to have bred the (often unjustified) sense of superiority you've mentioned?

    There was an arrogance and conceit expressed with the eyes from many of the 'engineers', much more so with the non graduate 'C course' people than with the university graduates who often had a knowledgable fresheness in their manner.
    There was also a sense of being special by most Auntie employees, and this was just because of working for Auntie rather than being measurably performance related. The engineers often stood tall and stern, expressing purely with their eyes that they were looking at something the 'cat had brought in'.

    But they only had the 'C' course, something which I subsequently exceeded. This behaviour no doubt was a part of their self perceived identity and validity, and became a social group norm; I have also recently experienced similar behaviour from their research dept.

    This 'pure theatre' had its effects on others not party to that social norm, including me, and I attracted much scorn and derision for my own attempts at audio work.

    However, my last manager, a decent honest and humble guy, and with whom I discussed the organisation after leaving, quoted his description of me to another employee as being "streets ahead of the rest", whilst earlier a middle aged, and described as a neurotic by a graduate, used to describe me as "dead wood".

    This all underlines the techniques used by people to achieve self esteem, self deception, and probably is adopted by those who lack self esteem in the first place.

  8. #288
    Join Date: Oct 2012

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    I'm Alan.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    You can only measure something, if you know *exactly* what to measure, and moreover, you can only show the subsequent measurements if what you've measured actually works!.
    Here is the nub of the problem. The levels of 'pollutants' (I will continue to use this term as it is not just RFI imo) is very small in terms of something to measure.
    The ear is very sensitive and has been shown on may occasions can detect things that are not conventionally 'measurable'. When the masking effect of this small pollutant level is removed the ear can detect the change.

    The level of said pollutants is very small and also very wide bandwidth. With measuring equipment getting the required sensitivity plus the necessary bandwidth is almost an impossible task as they are in many ways mutually exclusive.

  9. #289
    Join Date: May 2018

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    I'm Peter.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    Yes. but I'm not asking for a detailed blueprint on its design (obviously), just a basic description of its intended functionality, in unambiguous terms.

    If the product's been designed for the right reasons, and has a genuine purpose, other than that of creating a placebo effect, or simply a 'cash cow' for its maker, or anyone else who stands to profit from sales, then there's no reason why that information shouldn't be forthcoming.

    Marco.
    Iím no electronic engineer but this from the CAD website gives a basic explanation. The man behind CAD is an electronic engineer (and CAD make one of the best sounding DACs I have ever heard so he knows his stuff).

    The Ground Control contains a mixture of materials that converts high frequency energy into heat. Our research has found that to achieve the best sound quality the GC1, GC3 & GC-R needed to be effective over a large frequency range. This was not easy to accomplish! The CAD Ground Controls will substantially reduce noise from very high KHz range up to over 10 GHz.
    There are two independent voltage references in any audio system:
    1) Signal Ground
    2) Earth
    Earth is what the third pin on your mains plug is connected to and what your copper pipes in your house are connected to. Earth is not typically (but occasionally is) connected to the Signal Ground in higher quality audio components.
    Signal Ground is the negative side of an RCA, XLR, USB etc. connector.
    Most audio engineers put a lot of effort into making sure the positive and negative rails of their DC power supplies have low ripple and noise, adequate bandwidth, etc. but typically not much thought is put into the signal ground plane.
    CAD believes that reducing high frequency noise on Signal Ground and Earth improves sound quality.

  10. #290
    Join Date: Jan 2008

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    Quote Originally Posted by Firebottle View Post
    Here is the nub of the problem. The levels of 'pollutants' (I will continue to use this term as it is not just RFI imo) is very small in terms of something to measure.
    The ear is very sensitive and has been shown on may occasions can detect things that are not conventionally 'measurable'. When the masking effect of this small pollutant level is removed the ear can detect the change.

    The level of said pollutants is very small and also very wide bandwidth. With measuring equipment getting the required sensitivity plus the necessary bandwidth is almost an impossible task as they are in many ways mutually exclusive.
    Hi Alan,

    Thanks for that, so what exactly are these "pollutants", what generates them, and how, in your opinion, does this grounding box help eliminate them?

    I agree with your point on ears being sensitive, and measuring apparatus sometimes being unable to measure all that we can hear, but of course there has to be something genuine to measure in the first place.

    Marco.
    http://www.thestainedglasscompany.com

    "A man is a success if he gets up in the morning and gets to bed at night, and in between he does what he wants to do" -- Milan Kundera.

    BE HAPPY EVERYDAY!

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