What's the story...

[Marco]

Hi Sean,

Thanks for sharing your (carefully considered) thoughts earlier, particularly this, which I think is quite insightful:

Is it that I now have my perfect system or is it that my state of mental health has now reached 59 years old and ridiculous things like hi-fi addiction no longer matter. I no longer have anything to prove to anyone but myself which is obvious by the fact that Sue and I now listen alone and no longer have the need to invite people around to share the experience with. The sound we get is just the sound the system reproduces, take it or leave it and if it doesn't please everyone but us then who gives a shit. We don't invite people around anymore to attempt to prove to them how good our sound is. There is simply no need.

It could be that the competitive edge that so many people suffer from has finally left me and that I no longer give two hoots about what others think and how my system has to be better than theirs....

The bit in bold, for me, says it all - and if you *truly* mean that, then you've arrived in happy place my friend!

An out of control Hi-fi addiction, for me, is a form of neurosis. It can seriously (and adversely) affect your wellbeing and state of mind (not to mention bank balance), and unfortunately forums such as this are populated by its victims, and indirectly probably also help create it!

The main problem is, males in general are prone to (often unhealthy) bouts of competitiveness, involving any activities that they're interested in or passionate about, which includes hi-fi!

Therefore, the desire to 'show off' their systems to others of a similar mindset, and try to 'beat' them, by proving that theirs sounds better [how 'bakeoffs' were born], is powerful and controlling, and it can be destructive in all sorts of ways, mentally and/or financially, and crucially also in causing the breakdown of relationships. I know of instances where that's sadly been the case.

For me, of all the box-swappers I've seen on forums and also met over the years, IMO, only Jerry hasn't allowed his 'hi-fi addiction' (or more in his case, his hobby) to control him, negatively impact on his life or erode his love of music. Others who qualify as 'box-swappers' may *think* that's the case, but are clearly victims of a genuine hi-fi addiction - and they have a serious problem too, which in some cases has spiralled out of control and needs addressing ASAP.

The key to ensuring that your (healthy) hobby doesn't turn into a destructive addiction, is in *some point* reaching the realisation that the equipment/boxes are simply a means to an end, and that that end is enjoying your favourite music, either yourself or with your partner/friends or family, with your system producing a sound that you can RELAX with, and not sit there analysing (for faults).

You acknowledge its sonic limitations, as all hi-fi systems have, but those are easily overridden by how the sound connects you emotionally with the music, and turns the whole listening exercise into one that's stress-free and enjoyable, which you look forward to participating in every day, instead of being a chore and fraught with stress and ultimately disappointment, no matter how much you try and convince yourself differently!

Anyway, I'm glad that you're in a happy place now and hope that what I've written may make some folks stop and think...

Marco.

[Jimbo]

I used to be a hifi box swapper many years ago but I needed to go through this phase of my life in order to understand what sound I liked. Others can give you advice and you can hear as many systems as you like but ultimately it is your own ears that tell you if its the sound and correspondingly the gear you are looking for. Once you have established what aspects of sound are important too you then you can start to build a system that accomplishes this goal.

Like you Shaun I have found Spendor speakers and valves make a nice sound I also found that vinyl could make a nice sound but as you have mentioned this can be quite labour intensive and a faff, although I feel the effort is still worth it. I understand why you have gone done the digital route as it can simplify things and take some of the frustration out of playing music. And really music is what is should all be about, not the next box or next format which then spins out of control into lots more expenditure and equipment. I would rather spend money on music and spend time listening to it rather than fiddling with stuff constantly to try and make it sound better.

But audiophiles can never ever really kick the habit and we all succumb to a little fiddle every now and then!

[Haselsh1]

James I so agree that we all like a little fiddle every now and again. With that in mind I'll acknowledge that I would love to try a set of JJ KT88's

Regarding vinyl replay, I agree again. I've been into that since 1978 but reached a point early last year where for me, it was no longer worth the intensity that it requires from the user. My personal situation changed once again house wise and I just used this as an opportunity to reassess things regarding music reproduction and just how important it was (or wasn't). I love the combination of valves and Spendor speakers even though I came upon the combination almost by accident and with the addition of some good low frequency reinforcement, things are currently where I want to be.

I tried a set of borrowed KT88's a year or two back and things didn't turn out too positively so I would like to reinvent that wheel hopefully with more success. They very definitely sounded different but when switching the power amp off something caused a cracking sound out of both speakers. Once I had swapped back to the EL34's I had no problem and since then I have changed to JJ EL34's with no problems. Can't really explain it.

[Haselsh1]

Marco yes, I truly think it is a form of neurosis possibly obsessive compulsive type disorder and yes again, I think that this particular type of obsession afflicts mainly men.

[Marco]

I used to be a hifi box swapper many years ago but I needed to go through this phase of my life in order to understand what sound I liked. Others can give you advice and you can hear as many systems as you like but ultimately it is your own ears that tell you if its the sound and correspondingly the gear you are looking for. Once you have established what aspects of sound are important too you then you can start to build a system that accomplishes this goal.

Absolutely, and we've all been box-swappers at some point in our respective audio journeys, as *done properly*, with some sort of plan/end-goal firmly in mind, it acts as a valuable learning curve. However, the key is in the word "learning"...

Unfortunately many of us learn the sum total of bugger all, and spend all of our box-swapping days going round in never-ending circles, chasing a 'sound in our heads', which we want and think we can get, but simply never achieve.

If you don't want to fall into that trap, then you need to *actually learn* something useful, and use it to your advantage, by assembling a system that truly delivers musical satisfaction, and then give up the box-swapping, certainly the major stuff, and just lightly tweak the performance of the kit you've got, and spend the bulk of your money on music!

That, I believe, is where Jerry's at now, which shows he eventually got it right!

I've often thought it'd be a rather enlightening exercise if we could jump back in time and listen to all the systems we once owned, and which we ripped up and replaced for something else, and compare them with what we have now... I wonder in how many cases we'd find that we've gone backwards, more than forwards, in terms of the performance of our systems, how much musical pleasure they've given us, and exactly how much we've *genuinely* learned?

Marco.

[AJSki2fly]

I no longer have anything to prove to anyone but myself which is obvious by the fact that Sue and I now listen alone and no longer have the need to invite people around to share the experience with. The sound we get is just the sound the system reproduces, take it or leave it and if it doesn't please everyone but us then who gives a shit. We don't invite people around anymore to attempt to prove to them how good our sound is. There is simply no need.

It could be that the competitive edge that so many people suffer from has finally left me and that

Your words struck a chord with me as well. I started on the hifi/audiophile holy grail of listening to various systems, buying and selling equipment and so on about 42 years ago. The trouble was when younger I would all too easily get sucked into the new this and that, hyped up in too many HiFi mags, with reviews effectively saying this is the must have. So after at least half a dozen unique systems and various permutations, bits upgraded sometimes for the worse I effectively stopped listening to music seriously for about 10 years. Even though I owned a respectable Meridian 500 based system, with some decent speakers. I think I had become disheartened by it all, having never really getting to find the sound I wanted and within my budget. Then I heard my best friends system, he had returned to his system about 4 years earlier, as he had moth balled his whilst a family grew up and started to leave home. He had effectively replaced his original system that he had for many years, but had gone down the valve amp and bigger speaker route with good front end for record and CD. He gave me some good advise pointing out that I already had a very good CD player in the Meridian and that the power amp I had was pretty good, so all I needed to think about was TT and speakers (mine at the time I felt were a bit uncontrolled in the lower regions). Also he said "Think second hand and value for £'s, but be careful with TT's as they may need money and effort to get right if their history was heavily used". He also said think about what sound you want and then audition new or secondhand and take your gear along to see how it works together. I had sort of done this in the past, but never seemed to have or make enough time and was sometimes impetuous. So I took his advice, I wanted a similar sounding system to my friend as I liked its tone, musicality and openness. Initially I purchased a second hand Project Xperience to get the record side going not too much outlay with a view to upgrading if I did like the return to vinyl. Then I started looking for a replacement amplifier, with valves being the key, and ended up with what I have now, a smooth musical sound but also detailed. Things were still not what I wanted in the speakers department so after more listening to my friends system I went for the same speakers as him, and this combination worked very well giving me the sound and experience I wanted. So the next and nearly final step was to go for a better TT, I decided not to go for the secondhand route, which in hindsight was probably a mistake, for what I paid I now think I could have done better if I had searched for a good TT, not necessarily the same as I have. However I took advice on arm, phono and cartridge and these work well. For various reasons I am changing speakers now, mainly because I have been presented with some I would have never considered which are more acceptable in the lounge by Sue, my wife. However it was not until I listened did I make the decision to have them and primarily because they produced the sound and musical feeling I want.

I think I am nearing the end of the HiFi chase, I am more interested in listening to the music and enjoying it than picking holes in the system. However I think the TT could be improved on (arm, cartridge and phono stage are all fine), but it does sound very good, so I may just sit back and listen and forget it. As you say I am not that bothered any more whether others like it or think it sounds good or not, all that matters to me is my enjoyment.

[Marco]

Marco yes, I truly think it is a form of neurosis possibly obsessive compulsive type disorder and yes again, I think that this particular type of obsession afflicts mainly men.

Yup, and hi-fi attracts obsessive/compulsive types, and so promotes said neurosis! The key is in recognising the condition and doing something positive about it if you have it, which you appear to have done

Btw, I've been through the valves you mention many times over the years, and in the right amp/circuit, KT88s (and 120s, then 150s) easily outperform EL34s, in virtually all important parameters. However, you'll *never* discover that simply by tube-rolling the respective valves in the same amp, simply because no one amp can get the best from any single valve type, as it won't have been designed for it.

The only way, therefore, to come to any meaningful conclusions about specific valves, is to use them in an amp that's been designed, from the ground up, to get the most from the output valves it's been built to optimise.

Plus....and you've touched on this already, if you love the single-ended sound, done well, then no matter what valves you use, you may never like the push-pull one the same - and much will depend on the type of music you listen to!

Marco.

[Marco]

Your words struck a chord with me as well. I started on the hifi/audiophile holy grail of listening to various systems, buying and selling equipment and so on about 42 years ago. The trouble was when younger I would all too easily get sucked into the new this and that, hyped up in too many HiFi mags, with reviews effectively saying this is the must have. So after at least half a dozen unique systems and various permutations, bits upgraded sometimes for the worse I effectively stopped listening to music seriously for about 10 years. Even though I owned a respectable Meridian 500 based system, with some decent speakers. I think I had become disheartened by it all, having never really getting to find the sound I wanted and within my budget. Then I heard my best friends system, he had returned to his system about 4 years earlier, as he had moth balled his whilst a family grew up and started to leave home. He had effectively replaced his original system that he had for many years, but had gone down the valve amp and bigger speaker route with good front end for record and CD. He gave me some good advise pointing out that I already had a very good CD player in the Meridian and that the power amp I had was pretty good, so all I needed to think about was TT and speakers (mine at the time I felt were a bit uncontrolled in the lower regions). Also he said "Think second hand and value for £'s, but be careful with TT's as they may need money and effort to get right if their history was heavily used". He also said think about what sound you want and then audition new or secondhand and take your gear along to see how it works together. I had sort of done this in the past, but never seemed to have or make enough time and was sometimes impetuous. So I took his advice, I wanted a similar sounding system to my friend as I liked its tone, musicality and openness. Initially I purchased a second hand Project Xperience to get the record side going not too much outlay with a view to upgrading if I did like the return to vinyl. Then I started looking for a replacement amplifier, with valves being the key, and ended up with what I have now, a smooth musical sound but also detailed. Things were still not what I wanted in the speakers department so after more listening to my friends system I went for the same speakers as him, and this combination worked very well giving me the sound and experience I wanted. So the next and nearly final step was to go for a better TT, I decided not to go for the secondhand route, which in hindsight was probably a mistake, for what I paid I now think I could have done better if I had searched for a good TT, not necessarily the same as I have. However I took advice on arm, phono and cartridge and these work well. For various reasons I am changing speakers now, mainly because I have been presented with some I would have never considered which are more acceptable in the lounge by Sue, my wife. However it was not until I listened did I make the decision to have them and primarily because they produced the sound and musical feeling I want.

I think I am nearing the end of the HiFi chase, I am more interested in listening to the music and enjoying it than picking holes in the system. However I think the TT could be improved on (arm, cartridge and phono stage are all fine), but it does sound very good, so I may just sit back and listen and forget it. As you say I am not that bothered any more whether others like it or think it sounds good or not, all that matters to me is my enjoyment.

Could we have a few paragraphs, Adrian, when you get a chance?

Marco.

[AJSki2fly]

Could we have a few paragraphs, Adrian, when you get a chance?

Marco.

Brevity I am not known for!

[Marco]

Lol, that doesn't excuse you from pressing a 'return' key!"

Marco.