Tesla ECC83 vs Telefunken ECC83 - Christmas mini bake off

[Jimbo]

After extensive listening I have concluded that Telefunkens are no better than Teslas although they may have the edge in some areas. Given the very high price NOS Telefunkens are going for I would agree with Justin and just go for Teslas, you won't miss much and will save a few quid. My search for even better valves than either of these two goes on and i intend to investigate older and rarer NOS Teslas.

I have had gold pin 32 marked Teslas but not been impressed but there are some made at different factories over different periods of time. I need to do more research but ultimately you can only really tell how good a tube is when you try it in your own rig so reading reviews on the net only gets you so far. I would like to get hold of some ECC803s NOS Teslas as Justin has mentioned and found they are available but at nearly £100 each they are getting a tad expensive.

[Bigman80]

After extensive listening I have concluded that Telefunkens are no better than Teslas although they may have the edge in some areas. Given the very high price NOS Telefunkens are going for I would agree with Justin and just go for Teslas, you won't miss much and will save a few quid. My search for even better valves than either of these two goes on and i intend to investigate older and rarer NOS Teslas.

I have had gold pin 32 marked Teslas but not been impressed but there are some made at different factories over different periods of time. I need to do more research but ultimately you can only really tell how good a tube is when you try it in your own rig so reading reviews on the net only gets you so far. I would like to get hold of some ECC803s NOS Teslas as Justin has mentioned and found they are available but at nearly £100 each they are getting a tad expensive.

Good on ya, Jim. Putting money into comparisons is the only way to really get to know what you think.

I haven't had a Tesla ECC83 In my phonostage but I have had two PCC88's along with a Telefunken.

Personally, I didn't care for the Tesla effect. I do agree that it did seem to be slightly distorted in comparison to the PCC88 Telefunkens.

My perspective is that the Telefunken are more detailed and imaging is sublime with them.

I will try a Tesla ECC83 and will happily share my thoughts but knowing the brand's fingerprint, I already suspect to know the answer.

[User211]

I always buy Teslas from eBay Eastern block sellers. Never had an issue and the feedback for this chap is outstanding.

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?m...2F264094666514

These were the ones I used to use and were around £50 a pair 15 years ago.

Now check the price of the Telefunken. Around £700+ a pair and indeed around £500 when I sold mine years ago.

[User211]

I've never heard a trace of distortion from any Tesla but I have never used them in phono stages. Only preamps.

For Teslas get cross sword marked valves if you can.

Jerry doesn't seem to have liked Teslas in his Heron preamp. Seems to have preferred EH. He's just plain wrong sometimes. I've sat with him and been amazed at his preference in the past. But hey, he's Jerry and this is hi-fi. Lots of scope for disagreements

[Bigman80]

I've never heard a trace of distortion from any Tesla but I have never used them in phono stages. Only preamps.

For Teslas get cross sword marked valves if you can.

Jerry doesn't seem to have liked Teslas in his Heron preamp. Seems to have preferred EH. He's just plain wrong sometimes. I've sat with him and been amazed at his preference in the past. But hey, he's Jerry and this is hi-fi. Lots of scope for disagreements

Maybe distortion isn't the right word. The effect it has here is a loss of the clean lines I get from the Telefunken.

Bass seems less delineated and harder to hear the detail in the lower registers. The kids seem to have a bit more timbral qualities BUT again, I just don't get the amount of detail as I do from the Telefunken.

[User211]

Maybe distortion isn't the right word. The effect it has here is a loss of the clean lines I get from the Telefunken.

Bass seems less delineated and harder to hear the detail in the lower registers. The kids seem to have a bit more timbral qualities BUT again, I just don't get the amount of detail as I do from the Telefunken.

All I can say is I can't relate to your assertions because I haven't experienced anything of the sort.

However, if you hear it then you are right.

I will say though I find valve rolling perplexing. The results are not cut in stone and some valves will render a particular track better than another set.

What I do find I with time is that I notice the pecking order in terms of usage.

For example, for modern production triodes usage from highest to lowest in my DAC is:

EML AD1
EML globe mesh 45
KR PX4
KR 300B

Just making a point.

[User211]

The KR 300B has interestingly become less and less favoured over time after an initially good impression. Curious, but I know why I started to dislike it.

[Bigman80]

All I can say is I can't relate to your assertions because I haven't experienced anything of the sort.

However, if you hear it then you are right.

I will say though I find valve rolling perplexing. The results are not cut in stone and some valves will render a particular track better than another set.

What I do find I we time is that I notice the pecking order in terms of usage.

For example, for modern production triodes usage from highest to lowest in my DAC is:

EML AD1
EML globe mesh 45
KR PX4
KR 300B

Just making a point.

No, I totally agree. Mullards are mega popular but I really don't get why.

Same with the JJ valves I tried. Just sounded harsh to me.

The other thing to remember is the implementation of the valve will probably have the largest effect.

I was rolling Opamps recently in the Burson Bang power amp I have here. Some folks love the burr brown sound, me, I don't. Dark and smooth. Not what I. After. The Burson V6 actually resides in there now.

Strange little hobby isn't it.

[Jimbo]

JJ are harsh and fuzzy and Mullards are warm and rosy by comparison to Teslas. I don't really think Teslas sound distorted and they Image nearly as well as Telefunkens. The Telefunkens are detailed but from my listening experience they don't sound quite as dynamic as Teslas, they hold back a little. Obviously this is my system and phono stage so they may well sound different in other folks gear.

[User211]

No, I totally agree. Mullards are mega popular but I really don't get why.

Same with the JJ valves I tried. Just sounded harsh to me.

The other thing to remember is the implementation of the valve will probably have the largest effect.

I was rolling Opamps recently in the Burson Bang power amp I have here. Some folks love the burr brown sound, me, I don't. Dark and smooth. Not what I. After. The Burson V6 actually resides in there now.

Strange little hobby isn't it.

It is strange.

There are so many Mullards made over such a long period of time that it is hard to generalise and say they are all shit, I reckon.

Certainly the mid 80s mil spec CV series Mullard valves I have owned have been excellent. Which I wasn't expecting. As good as Teslas I would say. Probably more neutral.

But there's expectation bias, the history thing, the 'no good if it wasn't made in Blackburn' psyche, the fact they are British etc etc that all contributes to people wanting to like them. And that's important since it stops people thinking they need to explore more.