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Thread: Tesla ECC83 vs Telefunken ECC83 - Christmas mini bake off

  1. #21
    Join Date: Jan 2013

    Location: Birmingham

    Posts: 6,772
    I'm James.

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    Interesting regarding JJ valves. Yes they do sound harsh and bright and they are not really suitable for phono stage duties as a result but they are great in the regulation stage of my preamp. I have found them to be actually better than my NOS Teslas. Now this maybe down to a number of factors including the fact they may have more output than NOS tubes with unknown life? Many guitarists use them in their amps because they give such a strong output. I had an ECC99 JJ tube in my line stage, the equivalent of a 12BH7a and it was simply terrible in every respect!

    I have tried lots of Mullards and they do sound nice but I will leave it at that. They great thing about tubes is that there are so many out there to try like a box of liquorice all sorts, eventually you find the flavour you like in your system that suits your taste. No right or wrongs here its all about how you hear!
    Main system : VPI Scout 1.1 / JMW 9T / 2M Black / Croft 25R+ / Croft 7 / Heco Celan GT 702

    Second System : Goldring Lenco GL75 / AT95EX / Pioneer SX590 / Spendor SP2

  2. #22
    Join Date: Jan 2013

    Location: Bristol

    Posts: 6,843
    I'm Justin.

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    They should just be looked at as fine tuning devices, giving a change of flavour when boredom strikes.

    They have hoard appeal, and NOS ones could prove to be a good investment. New production ones will depreciate massively in the short term.

    I read somewhere that ECC83 is a better choice for guitar amps, and ECC803S is better for hi-fi applications. I wonder if there is any truth in that but if so I guess ECC83 breaks up better when overloaded due to its electrical characteristics. Anyone know if this is actually true?

  3. #23
    Join Date: Oct 2012

    Location: The Black Country

    Posts: 6,089
    I'm Alan.

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    The 803 is a premium tube, to quote:
    'the tolerances of electrical ratings are reduced in comparison with receiving tubes'

    By receiving tubes read 'normal production'. With a wider spread of characteristics then overload is likely to be preferable in guitar amps.

  4. #24
    Join Date: Feb 2014

    Location: Indianapolis, Indiana USA

    Posts: 779
    I'm Timothy.

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    I do find all of this very interesting, and certainly the tube rolling exercise can be fun, exciting, and also down right tiresome at times. I do agree that in any given situation, differences may be there, and it is a sort of “flavoring” of the soup, or as put above, fine tuning.

    What I think would be an even more interesting thing, would be a comparison using same equipment of course, of all the new manufactured ECC83 tubes out there. I would be curious what others think without bias. I have done some of this myself lately using my Croft Micro 25 and Series 7 amps. I am trying to kind of wrap my head around it all myself! I will leave my comments out of it for now, as more time to soak is needed....
    Holbo TT-Nag 110-Croft phono/Innuos Zen MK2/LinnenberG Telemann DAC-Preamp/LinnenberG Allegro monoblocs/Duevel Venus/LinnenberG Maestro SE-Senn. 660S DH Labs cabling

    Croft Series 7 amps, WLM La Scala, Naim Uniti1, Naim Nait XS3, Naim ND5XS2, Guru Junior

  5. #25
    Join Date: Jan 2013

    Location: Bristol

    Posts: 6,843
    I'm Justin.

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    I hear much bigger changes in triode/pentode power output valves than I ever do in small signal valves.

    Some people disagree with me but I can only ascertain than they are either:

    1) Stone deaf.
    2) Talking out of their arses without any real experience.

    Just my opinion and just making a point. Add to that I am not really a fan of valve phono stages. I always seem to prefer solid state for that. So my experience there is very limited.

    But yeah, I expect there are some excellent contemporary examples in ECC83 and ECC803S.

  6. #26
    Join Date: Jan 2013

    Location: Birmingham

    Posts: 6,772
    I'm James.

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    I noticed when I popped the Telefunken valves in the other week they had very badly oxidised pins so I cleaned them today with a fibre brush and transformed them to shiny and new. The difference when I popped them back in the Croft 25R was not subtle!

    I have been listening enthralled this weekend. They are a very class act and I would say they sound better than the Teslas by some margin.

    Who would have thought dirty pins could make such a difference!
    Main system : VPI Scout 1.1 / JMW 9T / 2M Black / Croft 25R+ / Croft 7 / Heco Celan GT 702

    Second System : Goldring Lenco GL75 / AT95EX / Pioneer SX590 / Spendor SP2

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