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Thread: What constitutes a grounding box?

  1. #131
    Join Date: Oct 2018

    Location: Wirral

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    I'm Lee.

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    The boxes look like the coffins you get your cat/dog/horse back in from animal cremations,the insides seem to resemble something out of steptoes yard.

  2. #132
    Join Date: Mar 2010

    Location: Sheffield

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    I'm Simon.

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    That some people prefer added noise isnt an idea i have trouble with. If broadband and low level the effect can be akin to digital dither.

    It's not for me though.

    I have a scope but you really need an AP or high spec signal gen plus noise analyser, I'd struggle to measure much below 0.1mv with any real accuracy.

    We can take the graph I posted at face value, archimago knows how to use his tools. It is of course only one measure with one bit of kit, it's indicative of what's happening with the DUT that he used.

  3. #133
    Join Date: Aug 2009

    Location: Staffordshire, England

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    I'm Martin.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yomanze View Post
    If these make an audible difference, then it can only mean that some people *prefer* a higher noise floor. This is interesting in itself as it isn’t the first time I have heard people preferring higher distortion. I don’t like how these are called grounding boxes though. They are indeed aerials. No current will magically flow into the box and get absorbed.
    Purely marketing to those who don't recall their 'O' level physics. It's a pleasant idea to think that the sound improvement comes from all those nasty eddy currents (or whatever) being 'drained' away. They're selling the sizzle, not the steak.

    What's interesting from a psychological point of view is that users of these devices say they make a perceived sonic improvement and that speculating on how they work is irrelevant.

    But they don't like the suggestion, or the evidence, that the subjective improvement is probably due to an increase in noise as opposed to a decrease.

    They are not keen on that despite claiming that the subjective effect is all that matters.

    That's why they are called 'Grounding boxes' and not 'Add a load of spurious RF noise to your system boxes.' If they were called the latter they wouldn't sell a single one, regardless of how beneficial the subjective effect was.
    Martin



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  4. #134
    Join Date: Apr 2009

    Location: Near Saffron Walden, Essex

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    I'm Dave.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Leeken View Post
    Anyone ever took one of these apart to see what is inside?
    There are some pics on the www, showing wooden box with some gravel/coal, chippings of some sort and a bit of bare copper wire.

    Regardless of whether they work or not, how can the prices be justified as they can't cost more than 30 or so to put together ?

  5. #135
    Join Date: Aug 2009

    Location: Staffordshire, England

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    I'm Martin.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hifi_dave View Post
    There are some pics on the www, showing wooden box with some gravel/coal, chippings of some sort and a bit of bare copper wire.

    Regardless of whether they work or not, how can the prices be justified as they can't cost more than 30 or so to put together ?
    Our old friend 'research and development.' Plus distributor and dealer margins and 20 percent VAT.
    Martin



    Current Lash Up:

    *Sony SCD XB790QS* Nelson Pass DCB1 / Krell KSA100 mkII * JM Lab Electra 926 *


    'You fool! To think that your ape-brain could contain the full knowledge of the Krell!'

  6. #136
    Join Date: Mar 2010

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    I'm Simon.

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  7. #137
    Join Date: Nov 2010

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    Quote Originally Posted by Macca View Post
    Our old friend 'research and development.' Plus distributor and dealer margins and 20 percent VAT.
    Which still doesn't equal several grand.
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  8. #138
    Join Date: Aug 2009

    Location: Staffordshire, England

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    I'm Martin.

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    Quote Originally Posted by REXTON View Post
    Which still doesn't equal several grand.
    Jerry's getting one from China for a tenner though. Or something like that.


    Copper is quite pricey now though isn't it? And there seems to be quite a lot of it in those boxes pictured above.
    Martin



    Current Lash Up:

    *Sony SCD XB790QS* Nelson Pass DCB1 / Krell KSA100 mkII * JM Lab Electra 926 *


    'You fool! To think that your ape-brain could contain the full knowledge of the Krell!'

  9. #139
    Join Date: Feb 2010

    Location: London, UK

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    I'm Dave.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Leeken View Post
    Anyone ever took one of these apart to see what is inside?
    I certainly don't want to open any made according to design suggestions from this thread.

    Objective testing of subjective opinions is actually rather hard to do. I was once "tricked" in a test to see which of three audio samples I "liked". I selected the lowest bit rate mp3 - which raised a lot of amusement. However, I had no control over the source material, nor did I know how good the original recording was. Of the three samples I heard (of the same piece of Tchaikovsky), I wasn't sure if it was the one with the high frequencies - which were distorted (IMO) or the smoothest sounding one - which was the low bit rate mp3. mp3 always introduces distortion - but it may be benign depending on the nature. Low bit rate mp3 might just behave as a low pass filter, depending on how low the bit rate actually is, thus not actually unpleasant. Medium bit rate might sound worse.

    If the tests are done where the subject has access to the original sound source - then the "objective" tests can give different results. In my case I was not asked which was closest to a known reference - that was something the testers (who were students) didn't think to try.

    Such tests need to be done by others, and preferably at least double blind, so that researcher bias is largely precluded. The tests need to be done over an extended period, to give repeatabiliity.
    Dave

  10. #140
    Join Date: Feb 2013

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    I'm Grant.

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    looks like obsidian cuttings(waste product) and probably is, with some cheap quartz on top. a bit of copper to stop it all moving about too much. a cheap as chips pine box. only one connector too so yo will need several.
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