What constitutes a grounding box?

[walpurgis]

Actually, when grounding boxes are mentioned, the thing that usually springs to my mind is one of these.

[hifi_dave]

Now, that's a good one..

Even has brass grounding posts on the side.

[Macca]

One for the enthusiast who is dead keen.

[earsopen]

Love this thread! Read it from start to finish and found it full of prejudice, and mostly written by people who have never tried grounding, but know it cannot work.

It's like a mutual negative opinion reinforcement society for those with closed minds. 'It wouldn't work in my system! I do not need to try it!'

Even when people who have used grounding state how positive the results have been, they are ignored or rebutted because it goes against the fixed opinion which has become the theme of the thread by those who have not tried grounding.

Hey, we found a graph online and it proves our opinion so let's use that to make our argument and reinforce our prejudices, and we can make up our own theories to fit around it. It would not be proper to have an open mind, and wait until you have heard a demonstration, or better still, tried grounding in your own system because you know it just cannot work.

So manufacturers like Entreq, Nordost, Vertex AQ and others manufacture passive grounding boxes because they obviously cannot work, and when people purchase the boxes and try them in their systems they then purchase more because they cannot hear any differences? Of course they can't, so they buy more because the box count looks more impressive. Then there are the active ground boxes which use electronics to fool the gullible listener, and since they are expensive there is no way they can work, can they?

Well, grounding boxes do work. They can work very well and produce improvements to what you hear that cannot be gained in any other way.

New Years resolutions to self - 1) keep an open mind 2) leave these closed mind threads alone

[sq225917]

Well, when they've been measured they are found to do nothing but introduce noise. So I'm likely to believe that's their primary modal function. When someone who uses lots of tweaks like fuses and CD mats says it sounds better then I just discount it as being an opinion with no reference to higher fidelity, which is all I'm after, measurably better sound.

I don't doubt for one minute that the removal of stray ground currents can remove low level background noise, and even significant hum in some instances. But ill repeat it for the benefit of doubt. These boxes do nothing that adding random wires to your hifi wouldnt do. You might hit lucky and link two components up in such a way that you improve system grounding, but you could have hit lucky in exactly the same way with 6 foot of wire and two crocodile clips.

[Wakefield Turntables]

Well, grounding boxes do work. They can work very well and produce improvements to what you hear that cannot be gained in any other way.

How? Explain please.

[Macca]

So manufacturers like Entreq, Nordost, Vertex AQ and others manufacture passive grounding boxes because they obviously cannot work, and when people purchase the boxes and try them in their systems they then purchase more because they cannot hear any differences? Of course they can't, so they buy more because the box count looks more impressive. Then there are the active ground boxes which use electronics to fool the gullible listener, and since they are expensive there is no way they can work, can they?

Well, grounding boxes do work. They can work very well and produce improvements to what you hear that cannot be gained in any other way.

New Years resolutions to self - 1) keep an open mind 2) leave these closed mind threads alone

I think you are swinging too far the other way. Personally I don't dismiss the idea that the concept can have an audible effect, as pointed out raising the noise floor by 40dB is likely to be audible in some way and this may well increase perceived sound quality, because perceived sound quality is funny like that. Take the enhanced soundstage of vinyl over digital for example, that effect occurs because vinyl is technically worse than digital with a much higher noise floor. Psychoacoustics can be counter-intuitive like that.

Assuming the effect is real then I am interested to understand how it is achieved. I regret that I am not the sort who will simply buy one because someone else tried one and says it works - I need to firstly understand what it is doing and how it is doing it because it may well be possible to get the same effect far more cheaply or indeed for nothing.

[Berni217]

Well, when they've been measured they are found to do nothing but introduce noise. So I'm likely to believe that's their primary modal function. When someone who uses lots of tweaks like fuses and CD mats says it sounds better then I just discount it as being an opinion with no reference to higher fidelity, which is all I'm after, measurably better sound.

I don't doubt for one minute that the removal of stray ground currents can remove low level background noise, and even significant hum in some instances. But ill repeat it for the benefit of doubt. These boxes do nothing that adding random wires to your hifi wouldnt do. You might hit lucky and link two components up in such a way that you improve system grounding, but you could have hit lucky in exactly the same way with 6 foot of wire and two crocodile clips.

Well, I don’t use tweaks in my systems Mr... and I have also reported some improvement. You may want to read up again Mr The Expert!


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[Wakefield Turntables]

I think you are swinging too far the other way. Personally I don't dismiss the idea that the concept can have an audible effect, as pointed out raising the noise floor by 40dB is likely to be audible in some way and this may well increase perceived sound quality, because perceived sound quality is funny like that. Take the enhanced soundstage of vinyl over digital for example, that effect occurs because vinyl is technically worse than digital with a much higher noise floor. Psychoacoustics can be counter-intuitive like that.

Assuming the effect is real then I am interested to understand how it is achieved. I regret that I am not the sort who will simply buy one because someone else tried one and says it works - I need to firstly understand what it is doing and how it is doing it because it may well be possible to get the same effect far more cheaply or indeed for nothing.

Well put Martin, I think your response pretty much mirror's my feelings on the subject.

Well, I don’t use tweaks in my systems Mr... and I have also reported some improvement. You may want to read up again Mr The Expert!

Eh! You don't use tweaks, yet you report some improvement. Where exactly? Have you tried the grounding box in your equipment and then heard an improvement? I don't understand your comments, can you clarify?

[struth]

other tweaks i think he meant.....