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Thread: What constitutes a grounding box?

  1. #161
    Join Date: Nov 2018

    Location: Grimsby

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    I'm David.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Macca View Post
    Which could be perceived as an increase in sound quality. Trouble is you can't easily test for that as Entreq claim the effect takes time to come on and then fades away over time even after you've removed the gadget. Which is convenient. So you have to try it for yourself and see, knowing the thing is in there, and then try to detect an effect which is going to gradually come over time.

    I mean if the effect is very obvious then no problemo. But I gather it is not, it seems to be a very subtle enhancement of soundstage and image placement, going by the testimonials. I'm not sure I would even notice it. especially with the sort of music I usually play.
    You have hit the nail on the head.

  2. #162
    Join Date: Aug 2009

    Location: Staffordshire, England

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    I'm Martin.

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    The problem is Mike that going to yours for a listen isn't going to help. I'm sure your system sounds fantastic but how do I know what part *if any* of that is what the box is contributing? And it's no good disconnecting the box to show me as the effect is said to gradually fade away over time rather than just stop on the moment of disconnection.

    So if I ask you to disconnect the box and then hear no difference this is because the effect is still lingering, and not because the box does nothing. Likewise if you have it disconnected for a while then reconnect the benefit will not instantly re-appear, I will have to wait while it gradually takes hold.

    So any A/B comparison is impossible. In fact I wonder given these caveats how you can be so sure that the box is contributing anything? It seems to me that even those who have tried it cannot be certain that it really does anything.
    Martin



    Current Lash Up:

    Technics SLP1200 CD Player * Nelson Pass DCB1 Pre amp / Krell KSA50S Power amp * JM Lab Electra 926 loudspeakers *


    'You fool! To think that your ape-brain could contain the full knowledge of the Krell!'

  3. #163
    Join Date: Apr 2009

    Location: Near Saffron Walden, Essex

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    I'm Dave.

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    How can the effect possibly fade away over time when the box is removed ? Does the box charge up the system or something ?

  4. #164
    Join Date: Oct 2012

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    I'm Alan.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Macca View Post
    So if I ask you to disconnect the box and then hear no difference this is because the effect is still lingering, and not because the box does nothing. Likewise if you have it disconnected for a while then reconnect the benefit will not instantly re-appear, I will have to wait while it gradually takes hold.
    I think you are giving too much credence to the BS that is Entreq marketing speak.

  5. #165
    Join Date: Aug 2009

    Location: Staffordshire, England

    Posts: 25,495
    I'm Martin.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Firebottle View Post
    I think you are giving too much credence to the BS that is Entreq marketing speak.
    But you see that following their logic it is impossible to a do a blind A/B test on the thing? So what is the point of going to listen to one, it won't confirm anything?
    Martin



    Current Lash Up:

    Technics SLP1200 CD Player * Nelson Pass DCB1 Pre amp / Krell KSA50S Power amp * JM Lab Electra 926 loudspeakers *


    'You fool! To think that your ape-brain could contain the full knowledge of the Krell!'

  6. #166
    Join Date: Apr 2011

    Location: Surrey

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    I'm Mike.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Macca View Post
    The problem is Mike that going to yours for a listen isn't going to help. I'm sure your system sounds fantastic but how do I know what part *if any* of that is what the box is contributing? And it's no good disconnecting the box to show me as the effect is said to gradually fade away over time rather than just stop on the moment of disconnection.

    So if I ask you to disconnect the box and then hear no difference this is because the effect is still lingering, and not because the box does nothing. Likewise if you have it disconnected for a while then reconnect the benefit will not instantly re-appear, I will have to wait while it gradually takes hold.

    So any A/B comparison is impossible. In fact I wonder given these caveats how you can be so sure that the box is contributing anything? It seems to me that even those who have tried it cannot be certain that it really does anything.
    The effect was immediate when plugging in the cables the first time.
    Sound quality improved after that, causing head scratching and puzzlement.

    When I pluck up the courage I will test, disconnect all, listen again and reconnect.
    Need to do soon to report back on this thread and I assume offer again.
    TAD CD / DAC / Pre, Technics 1210, MCRU PSU, Mike New Bearing & Platter, Stillpoints LP1 weight, Speedy Steve Ebony armboard, Fidelity Research FR64FX arm, Ortofon SPU. Aurorasound VIDA Phono Pre Amp, TAD Power Amp, TAD E1 speakers. Coherent RTZ 3 Grounding box, Coherent grounding cables, Creaktiv racks. Coherent Mains Cables. SR Blue Fuse. Interconnects : Coherent and Yannis 223.5 Connect Litz. Coherent speaker cable. Audio Magic Transcendence Conditioner. Coherent mains socket. Mains Filters : , PS Audio Harvesters, Russ Andrews Purifiers, Tacima, Vertex. Black Ravioli and RDC supports. Electric Beach S1NX platforms for TAD CD and Technics. Ferrite chokes everywhere except the above. Ears, brain

    Mike

  7. #167
    Join Date: Apr 2011

    Location: Surrey

    Posts: 4,140
    I'm Mike.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hifi_dave View Post
    How can the effect possibly fade away over time when the box is removed ? Does the box charge up the system or something ?
    Dunno Dave.
    Need to try
    Perhaps test last thing at night, disconnect, test again, evaluate, go beddy byes, test in the morning and then reconnect.
    Seems almost scientific
    TAD CD / DAC / Pre, Technics 1210, MCRU PSU, Mike New Bearing & Platter, Stillpoints LP1 weight, Speedy Steve Ebony armboard, Fidelity Research FR64FX arm, Ortofon SPU. Aurorasound VIDA Phono Pre Amp, TAD Power Amp, TAD E1 speakers. Coherent RTZ 3 Grounding box, Coherent grounding cables, Creaktiv racks. Coherent Mains Cables. SR Blue Fuse. Interconnects : Coherent and Yannis 223.5 Connect Litz. Coherent speaker cable. Audio Magic Transcendence Conditioner. Coherent mains socket. Mains Filters : , PS Audio Harvesters, Russ Andrews Purifiers, Tacima, Vertex. Black Ravioli and RDC supports. Electric Beach S1NX platforms for TAD CD and Technics. Ferrite chokes everywhere except the above. Ears, brain

    Mike

  8. #168
    Join Date: Feb 2008

    Location: Down South

    Posts: 2,353
    I'm Neal.

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    Correct me if I’m wrong Mike but I believe Tony claims the RTZ box works in a different way to the others on the market as indicated in your thread on TAS...

    There is no rocket science here, just grounding principles taken to a particularly conclusion which produces the desired results

    Vertex Aq, Entreq and Nordost all have products which claim do produce a similar condition

    However on this occasion measurements will tell you what you need to know with these products.
    Listening in a Foo free Zone...

    Only a Sith deals in absolutes.

  9. #169
    Join Date: Aug 2009

    Location: Staffordshire, England

    Posts: 25,495
    I'm Martin.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeMusic View Post
    The effect was immediate when plugging in the cables the first time.
    Sound quality improved after that, causing head scratching and puzzlement.

    When I pluck up the courage I will test, disconnect all, listen again and reconnect.
    Need to do soon to report back on this thread and I assume offer again.
    Okay, if the effect is immediate with yours you could also do a rudimentary blind test, maybe get the mrs to plug and unplug it while you listen without looking?
    Martin



    Current Lash Up:

    Technics SLP1200 CD Player * Nelson Pass DCB1 Pre amp / Krell KSA50S Power amp * JM Lab Electra 926 loudspeakers *


    'You fool! To think that your ape-brain could contain the full knowledge of the Krell!'

  10. #170
    Join Date: Feb 2013

    Location: nr. Cambridge

    Posts: 18
    I'm bob.

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    You may not have noticed that Mike is not using an Entreq box, but another.

    However, the effect 'of lowering the noise floor' (as opposed to injecting noise into the system) is likely to be similar. Not all grounding systems use a mineral filling like Entreq but for the purposes of this thread the reasons for grounding are to achieve the same effect.

    Mike has made a very generous offer to demo his system but it would not surprise me if the cynics refused just in case they can hear a difference. The truth is that differences (improvements) are so easy to hear that it would mean a complete rethink for somebody who is sceptical.

    If this theory about 'injecting more noise' was correct and this noise being 'perceived as an improvement', why would people add more grounding? The extra noise from each these extra boxes would drown out any detail in any system, so why do that? I have asked this as a question because it will be interesting to hear how far the theorists can go.

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