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Thread: Brand new records

  1. #1
    Join Date: Oct 2018

    Location: Forest of Dean

    Posts: 390
    I'm Gary.

    Default Brand new records

    For those who didn't see my previous threads I've recently bought a used Project Debut TT and was initially quite unimpressed
    I got a couple of brand new albums for Christmas (Dark Side of the Moon and U2 Greatest Hits, both remastered 180gsm) and have been blown away at how much better they sound to my old collection, I know it's a cliché but the difference is night and day.
    I didn't realise just how badly my old records have been looked after (oops)
    I know nothing can be done about scratches but are the cheaper cleaning machined (knosti) going to get my old vinyl close to a brand new record or am I expecting too much?
    Marantz CD63 KI Signature
    Project Debut II
    Pioneer A656 Reference
    Epos M5s
    Atacama Stands
    Maplin speaker cable cos I can't hear a difference
    Various interconnects as above

  2. #2
    Join Date: Feb 2013

    Location: W Lothian

    Posts: 56,876
    I'm Grant.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaz View Post
    For those who didn't see my previous threads I've recently bought a used Project Debut TT and was initially quite unimpressed
    I got a couple of brand new albums for Christmas (Dark Side of the Moon and U2 Greatest Hits, both remastered 180gsm) and have been blown away at how much better they sound to my old collection, I know it's a cliché but the difference is night and day.
    I didn't realise just how badly my old records have been looked after (oops)
    I know nothing can be done about scratches but are the cheaper cleaning machined (knosti) going to get my old vinyl close to a brand new record or am I expecting too much?
    wont do much with ticks or jumps but will reduce noise etc if records are not ruined by a duff arm/stylus. try getting someone close by to clean a couple and see what the results are.
    Regards,
    Grant .... ؠ

    I've said it before and I'll say it again: democracy simply-doesn't-work
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  3. #3
    Join Date: May 2016

    Location: Much Wenlock

    Posts: 967
    I'm Gary.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaz View Post
    For those who didn't see my previous threads I've recently bought a used Project Debut TT and was initially quite unimpressed
    I got a couple of brand new albums for Christmas (Dark Side of the Moon and U2 Greatest Hits, both remastered 180gsm) and have been blown away at how much better they sound to my old collection, I know it's a cliché but the difference is night and day.
    I didn't realise just how badly my old records have been looked after (oops)
    I know nothing can be done about scratches but are the cheaper cleaning machined (knosti) going to get my old vinyl close to a brand new record or am I expecting too much?
    I did say in one of your earlier posts that you would need a record cleaner

    Yes the Knosti will have a very beneficial effect on your old records, I find that some of my old (very old) records that were totally abandoned in the loft sound as good as new vinyl, after cleaning.

    In fact some new pressings are crap by comparison.

    Gary
    It is easier to seek forgiveness than to ask permission

    Rules are meant for the obedience of fools and the guidance of wise men

  4. #4
    Join Date: Nov 2011

    Location: Seaton, Devon, UK

    Posts: 1,886
    I'm Adrian.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaz View Post
    I know nothing can be done about scratches but are the cheaper cleaning machined (knosti) going to get my old vinyl close to a brand new record or am I expecting too much?
    Have look at this thread that I started on cleaning records and what I am trying to establish, it might help you initially. I started with a Knosti and it does a reasonable job, but you need to definitely think about making a vacuum set up to suck the liquid off with the crap, but doing something is better than nothing, especially if you carefully rinse with distilled water and then allow to dry.

    Good luck.
    [FONT="Arial"]
    Listening is the act of aural discrimination and dissemination of sound


    Voyd the Voyd (slightly modified), SME IV arm(special build virtually a V) and JELCO TK850M(10"), Benz Micro LP-S & Michel Cusis MC cartridge, Furutech AG-12-R4 High Performance Phono Cable, LFD MMC special phono stage, RaspberryPi/HifiBerry Digi to Beresford Caiman SEG DAC, Meridian 508 CD to Caiman SEG, ALLNIC T1500 MKII SET 300B amp, Vienna Acoustics Mozart SE speakers and JBL L100 Century's , Chord Epic speaker leads, & signature links, the Eccose Conductor CA1 cd to pre

  5. #5
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Norwich

    Posts: 891
    I'm Mike.

    Default

    It may be that your old records are worn; this can reduce dynamics and general playback quality. It can be that your arm/cart. like the extra height of the 180 g (i.e. they're not ideally set for thinner records with regard to VTA). I've yet to buy a remastered 180g new record which satisfies, so I've stopped buying them.

  6. #6
    Join Date: Oct 2018

    Location: Forest of Dean

    Posts: 390
    I'm Gary.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Stryder5 View Post
    I did say in one of your earlier posts that you would need a record cleaner

    Yes the Knosti will have a very beneficial effect on your old records, I find that some of my old (very old) records that were totally abandoned in the loft sound as good as new vinyl, after cleaning.

    In fact some new pressings are crap by comparison.

    Gary
    I had remembered your advice, I just wondered how much improvement I could expect.

    I bought a very clean looking 2nd hand album (Fleetwood Mac, Rumours) and was quite disappointed by that althought it was suggested that it wasn't a particularly good recording to start with.
    Marantz CD63 KI Signature
    Project Debut II
    Pioneer A656 Reference
    Epos M5s
    Atacama Stands
    Maplin speaker cable cos I can't hear a difference
    Various interconnects as above

  7. #7
    Join Date: Oct 2018

    Location: Forest of Dean

    Posts: 390
    I'm Gary.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by AJSki2fly View Post
    Have look at this thread that I started on cleaning records and what I am trying to establish, it might help you initially. I started with a Knosti and it does a reasonable job, but you need to definitely think about making a vacuum set up to suck the liquid off with the crap, but doing something is better than nothing, especially if you carefully rinse with distilled water and then allow to dry.

    Good luck.
    I did read it, you have far more patience and dedication than me, and if I'm honest I'm still undecided how many of my old records I'll actually ever listen to again, the 12"Jellybean Dance Remix of Like a Virgin is low on the list as is An Officer an a Gentleman soundtrack album lol
    Marantz CD63 KI Signature
    Project Debut II
    Pioneer A656 Reference
    Epos M5s
    Atacama Stands
    Maplin speaker cable cos I can't hear a difference
    Various interconnects as above

  8. #8
    Join Date: Nov 2011

    Location: Seaton, Devon, UK

    Posts: 1,886
    I'm Adrian.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by AJSki2fly View Post
    Have look at this thread that I started on cleaning records and what I am trying to establish, it might help you initially. I started with a Knosti and it does a reasonable job, but you need to definitely think about making a vacuum set up to suck the liquid off with the crap, but doing something is better than nothing, especially if you carefully rinse with distilled water and then allow to dry.

    Good luck.

    [QUOTE=Gaz;1044302
    I did read it, you have far more patience and dedication than me, and if I'm honest I'm still undecided how many of my old records I'll actually ever listen to again, the 12"Jellybean Dance Remix of Like a Virgin is low on the list as is An Officer an a Gentleman soundtrack album lol
    [/QUOTE]

    Ah but you might find yourself coming across the odd second hand record now and be tempted as it is a bargain or one that you always wanted. Then when you get home you find it needs a good clean, that's when you might find the dark abyss of record cleaning swallows you up.

    Something else to bear in mind Gary is that styli are not all the same and have different shapes, some are more prone to picking up noise from the grooves than others. I will will take the risk of making a broad statement here in that generally the better the stylus the more likely it is to be affected, IMO the is because it is likely to be shaped so that it gets deeper into the grooves. The other thing that has a big impact in quieting replay is a heavy tracking cartridge, most nowadays I believe somewhere around 1.5 to 5 grams, but cartridges tracking around 20grams are not unknown but require a heavier arm. The result of a cartridge tracking heavier is is looses the pops and crackles, I am not certain why but suspect the stylus has more resistance to the crap it comes across in the groove and so is less affected by it, however I think that the sound reproduced is affected as well, maybe loosing some top end clarity.

    So depending what your cartridge is and how your records have been cared for you might find a light clean is all that is needed to get them acceptable, I have certainly found that with some records I have purchased, and others I thought looked great have turned out to be terrible, so it is not always obvious from just looking at the record in my experience.

    Give it a go and judge for yourself. Be interesting to know how you get on.
    [FONT="Arial"]
    Listening is the act of aural discrimination and dissemination of sound


    Voyd the Voyd (slightly modified), SME IV arm(special build virtually a V) and JELCO TK850M(10"), Benz Micro LP-S & Michel Cusis MC cartridge, Furutech AG-12-R4 High Performance Phono Cable, LFD MMC special phono stage, RaspberryPi/HifiBerry Digi to Beresford Caiman SEG DAC, Meridian 508 CD to Caiman SEG, ALLNIC T1500 MKII SET 300B amp, Vienna Acoustics Mozart SE speakers and JBL L100 Century's , Chord Epic speaker leads, & signature links, the Eccose Conductor CA1 cd to pre

  9. #9
    Join Date: May 2013

    Location: Rotherham

    Posts: 328
    I'm steve.

    Default

    If old records are noisy or appear to have lost their edge they have probably in the past been used with a heavy tracking cartridge with a spherical stylus of a comparatively large radius which will have worn the upper portion of the record groove walls. Using a modern cartridge with a finer profile elliptical stylus which will go deeper into the groove, which provided its clear of dirt and debris (knosti cleaned ) will probably have a lot of detail and decent sound quality still there to be enjoyed.


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  10. #10
    Join Date: Jan 2009

    Location: Essex

    Posts: 20,496
    I'm openingabottleofwine.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by steve-z View Post
    If old records are noisy or appear to have lost their edge they have probably in the past been used with a heavy tracking cartridge with a spherical stylus of a comparatively large radius which will have worn the upper portion of the record groove walls. Using a modern cartridge with a finer profile elliptical stylus which will go deeper into the groove, which provided its clear of dirt and debris (knosti cleaned ) will probably have a lot of detail and decent sound quality still there to be enjoyed.
    Agreed. I dread to think of the damage caused by a cartridge tracking at 20g. It has been shown that the vinyl can be stressed beyond its elastic limit by cartridges tracking at more than 1g. But that is theoretical, and since there are enough technical compromises one has to accept with vinyl replay, one more won't make much difference.
    Barry

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