Chord Dave - good as vinyl?

[bob4333]

Listening to vinyl is a frustrating experience. So many variables - set up, fiddling, dust control, not to mention getting up every 15 minutes to flip the disc. And I do believe new LP manufacturers / distributors are 'aving a larf with their prices and quality.

But like many, I've not found any other format that provides an equivalent listening experience.

I am in a suddenly unexpected position to splash a bit of cash on improving the digital side of things with a better DAC than the Leema Elements unit I've had for a while now. Following the principle of "Buy once and buy well" the direction is pointing to the Chord Dave as being a bit of a game changer, albeit at a fairly eye watering price. This would be fed from a Cyrus X2 renderer and a Leema Antila IIs CD player although I'm not precious about either of these and could also be changed if worthwhile.

Bass, warmth, soundstage and shimmering detail are the principle pursuits. But the vinyl warmth has to be there or I'm just throwing money away.

Before I start the onerous process of demoing, I'd like to hear from anyone that has one - or experience of one - and in particular if they've found it sufficiently satisfying to leave their turntable gathering dust in the corner?

Or is there anything else out there that would do the job for less money?

[Jimbo]

Hi Bob,

I have heard DAVE a great deal and is a stunning DAC albeit at a price! Comparing it to vinyl or should I say analogue is interesting as i would say DAVE sounds more like analogue on tape rather than vinyl. The comparison with analogue is mainly down to the very smooth and full rich sound DAVE gives you especially if you use it with the m-scaler and preferably a music server rather than A CDP. My very words when I first heard DAVE were that it had an analogue sound with great depth and layering of information. It also plumped the depths of bass unlike anything any analogue device could do. In fact DAVE can do a lot of things vinyl cannot due with its vanishingly low noise floor and great dynamic range abilities. It would be my go to DAC if I had the cash and indeed is the only device I would say truly delivers something nearly as good as analogue.

Now here is the crux, DAVE still sounds digital or should I say more digital than analogue because after extensive listening you are still left with the impression you have been listening to a digital piece of equipment or should I say a digital presentation of music. DAVE smashes many of the panes of glass digital puts between the listener and the music but there is still a hint of detachment from the recording. Vinyl still sounds like you are listening to the real thing and there are no artefacts between you and the recording. Your brain is tricked or feels far more comfortable listening to vinyl and the music sounds more realistic.

I feel DAVE had moved digital onto a different level which is that it gives a glimpse of just how good digital will be and indeed as I have said it can achieve many things vinyl cannot. But it is the things vinyl does achieve which are more convincing in my book than digital, even with all the limitations you mentioned.

DAVE straddles that area in between digital and analogue in that it often sounds like neither and but can sometimes sound like both.

[bob4333]

James that's a well considered, very helpful insight, thank you.

Analogue on tape is something I appreciate and know how good it can be. There are times when I can listen to my digital side of life and think "well, this is quite good", but under it all I know what's lacking and whilst it's OK there's a sense of involvement missing. When I put an LP on it's a very different game.

Without wishing to restate the obvious I'm looking to bring digital a lot closer to the analogue sound. A third presentation that could be equally engrossing isn't something that had necessarily crossed my mind. Intriguing.

Your positive descriptions of what DAVE can do have made me consider the problem slightly differently. Maybe there isn't yet a digital solution to getting an analogue sound - but perhaps there's a presentation that's equally satisfying.

Nothing I've read anywhere has a bad thing to say about DAVE (except maybe looks and name but these are just subjective opinions). Performance wise and deliverable sound quality seem to be promoted by all that hear it with a wide cross section of musical tastes.

I think I'm going to have to go listen. Thanks again.

[Firebottle]

If money was no object I'm sure I would have bought a DAVE by now.
I have heard DAVE in the same environment that Jimbo has and it is very impressive.

Knowing and understanding what Rob Watts of Chord has done in the firmware and filtering domain confirms that not messing up the phase relations in music is crucial.
As a cheaper alternative to DAVE I bought a Bel canto DAC3 which has 'slow roll off' digital and analogue filters, which go a long way to preserving the phase relationships.
For a lower budget I am very happy, particularly as I have just removed the final bottleneck in the system, allowing the full performance to shine through.

[Macca]

Vinyl replay introduces its own character to the sound so you're never going to get digital to sound like vinyl. Yes there are cd players that claim to 'sound like analogue' but IME they just sound a bit muggy with soft bass. With DACS some claim that non-oversampling 'NOS' DACs sound more 'analogue'. (The DAVE is not one of those). Can't comment on that as I've never heard one.


Vinyl replay adds a little bit of second harmonic distortion, giving that warm, almost euphoric sound, and some reverb, giving a sense of more 'depth' to soundstage and a 'live' feel to the sound. In other words, its technical flaws are the reason why many people prefer how it presents the music.

I suppose I am not the only one to have noticed how, as the turntable system becomes better in engineering terms, it starts to lose those traits and starts sounding more like digital. In fact I've heard a system in which a very well-sorted Garrard 401 TT sounded more like a digital source than the accompanying Rega CD player did.


It's also interesting to note that people who have 'digitised' their vinyl by copying it onto a hard drive or burning CDs report that the resulting file or cd sound exactly like they were playing the record on their turntable.


In short if you want the vinyl sound there's no alternative but to use vinyl or a digital copy of your vinyl.

[simon g]

I don't think a Chord DAC will ever achieve the sound presentation you're after.

I would be exploring an Audio Note 2.1x balanced, or a Tron Seven perhaps.

[Ali Tait]

Have a look at Lumin. I recently got a D2 which I’m very happy with. Some members here have heard it, perhaps they may comment on their impressions.

I also have a Mytek Brooklyn, I’d recommend a listen also, it’s a great dac.

[Jimbo]

Have a look at Lumin. I recently got a D2 which I’m very happy with. Some members here have heard it, perhaps they may comment on their impressions.

I also have a Mytek Brooklyn, I’d recommend a listen also, it’s a great dac.

I have heard the Mytek and its thinner sounding than DAVE and does not produce the same huge super smooth soundstage.

[Edward]

I know that Chord allows home tests of their cables. Anyone know if they allow the Dave DAC to be tested at home?

To me the proper proof is testing things at home. I have often listened to Dave at shows in well sorted rooms and also once spent listening to Dave for about 40 mins with some cans. For sure all the detail, transparency and range was there but I've never come away feeling overwhelmed. At the asking price I expect to be overwhelmed.

[simon g]

I know that Chord allows home tests of their cables. Anyone know if they allow the Dave DAC to be tested at home?

To me the proper proof is testing things at home. I have often listened to Dave at shows in well sorted rooms and also once spent listening to Dave for about 40 mins with some cans. For sure all the detail, transparency and range was there but I've never come away feeling overwhelmed. At the asking price I expect to be overwhelmed.

I think you're confusing manufacturers. Chord Electronics, that make the Dave, has nothing to do with the cable manufacturer of a similar name.

I'm sure that a Chord Electronics retailer would be delighted to offer a home dem of this very costly DAC.