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Thread: Acoustic Dimentions Firebottle KIN Vs Khozmo 1.2A DCB1 - Mini bakeoff

  1. #1
    Bigman80 Guest

    Default Acoustic Dimentions Firebottle KIN Vs Khozmo 1.2A DCB1 - Mini bakeoff

    I heard the ADSA (Acoustic Dimensions Stepped Attenuator) today, in Alans Firebottle KIN Preamplifier.

    I know this Preamp intimately as I’ve been listening to it frequently for the last few years. Alan has undertaken a fair bit of work on this over that time and this has improved the performance incrementally over that time. The refinements made to the Phonostage section have made that really sing and it’s been a pleasure to listen to.

    That said, when the Chinese relay Preamp came in, the KIN was firmly dislodged IMO as the best preamp Alan owned. The problem, of course, was not the KIN’s design or the quality of components, it was the ALPS Blue Pot. Which (I have been saying for a dogs age) needed to be removed. I came to this resolute conclusion when I loaned the Slagle AVC from Ali Tait (IIRC) and it annihilated my very well built passive pre, with……ALPS Blue. If there is a bottleneck to a preamp’s performance or that of an integrated, it is in the potentiometer where the most improvement, Sound per £, can be found. That’s my opinion anyway.

    I have frequently recommended the Khozmo and for good reason. The Series version of this SA is the only version I have tried but I feel absolutely no reason to try the ladder or shunt version. By all accounts, the series is the most popular one for a reason! The Khozmo is stunningly transparent and engaging to my ears and yes, it’s not cheap but when you get it, you know why.

    Alan did a few measurements and realised he couldn’t fit a Khozmo in his case. A few days earlier, Alan and I had been discussing options and I had mentioned the ADSA, but not by name as id forgotten. As fate would have it, Alan found the exact model and ordered one.
    I was going to pick up my DCB1 so I had the chance to hear and compare the two preamps. I was worried for the KIN as when we did the comparison previously, the DCB1 added it to it’s bedpost as a conquered notch.

    We always use the same track first, Ride across The River – Dire Straits.

    Instantly, as Knopfler starts to sing, I knew. This ADSA was a game changer. Admittedly, I hadn’t heard my new DCB1 yet and was unsure as to how it compared but I knew the KIN was now a serious preamp. What stood out was the resolution. Nuances were tracked across the now spacious soundstage and decay seemed to go on forever. I was starting to worry about whether the DCB1 was going to be as good. I was slightly happy though, that the mid-section sounded a bit busy and I knew that the DCB1 would have the edge in terms of organisation clarity.

    We moved over to the DCB1 and my fears were allayed. I was right. The DCB1 has all of the resolution, maybe a little more in truth and as we listened, the mid-section was in fact far better delineated. Alan and I spoke about this and he said “ah, there isn’t a Telefunken in the line stage”

    As we listened on, I felt the DCB1 had a slightly drier presentation than the KIN but again, every component in th eDCB1 is brand new compared to the KIN which has been well run in, except for the ADSA. A few more tracks were played and the thing that still lingers about the KIN is the euphoric nature in which the music was presented. There is/was a slight softening of the sound compared to the DCB1. I found the DCB1 to be more precise and immediate which I prefer but if Swapping the line section valve to a Telefunken can tighten things up a bit, Alan will have a preamp very capable of hanging with the best.

    In my opinion, the ADSA is the most important and significant upgrade Alan has made to the Kin. Its clarity, transparency and insight are as good as the Khozmo from what I could tell and in terms of the improvement to performance, it’s not the KIN I knew, it’s a whole new level and I am not sure I have heard a better Valve preamp. All that improvement just by changing the Alps blue to a ADSA.

    I know loads of manufacturers use the ALPs but I am serious when i say, you are not serious if you are using one.

    Q: Would i recommend a Acoustic Dimensions Stepped Attenuator?

    A: After hearing what it's done for Alans KIN, i absolutely have to.

    Q: Is it better than a Khozmo?

    A: I would like to hear one in the same DCB1 set up i have. There were odd occasions when i thought it might be but i could also attribute the difference to the Harmonics of the Valves etc.

    I will be hearing the KIN in my system, i am sure, with the Telefunken mod and then i will know more. I must stress how impressed i was with what i heard today. if the Telefunken mod does what i expect, this is going to be a sensational preamp, one i think needs a comparison with a Croft Charisma X

  2. #2
    Join Date: Mar 2008

    Location: Galashiels

    Posts: 13,689
    I'm inthescottishmafia.

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    Yes agree, the pot can make a big difference to the sound, well worth experimenting with.
    “Music has always been a matter of energy to me, a question of fuel. Sentimental people call it inspiration, but what they really mean is fuel. I have always needed fuel. I am a serious consumer. On some nights I still believe that a car with the gas needle on empty can run about fifty more miles if you have the right music very loud on the radio”

    Hunter S Thompson

  3. #3
    Bigman80 Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ali Tait View Post
    Yes agree, the pot can make a big difference to the sound, well worth experimenting with.
    No doubt about it mate. What you using these days?

  4. #4
    Join Date: Mar 2008

    Location: Galashiels

    Posts: 13,689
    I'm inthescottishmafia.

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    Now have an AVC with Tribute transformers. It’s superb.
    “Music has always been a matter of energy to me, a question of fuel. Sentimental people call it inspiration, but what they really mean is fuel. I have always needed fuel. I am a serious consumer. On some nights I still believe that a car with the gas needle on empty can run about fifty more miles if you have the right music very loud on the radio”

    Hunter S Thompson

  5. #5
    Bigman80 Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ali Tait View Post
    Now have an AVC with Tribute transformers. It’s superb.
    Ooh nice.

  6. #6
    Join Date: Mar 2010

    Location: Sheffield

    Posts: 2,898
    I'm Simon.

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    Blimey Ali, spendy iron in there...
    Kuzma Stabi/S 12", (LP12-bastard) DC motor and optical tacho psu, Benz LP, Paradise (phonostage). MB-Pro, Brooklyn dac and psu, Bruno Putzeys balanced pre, mod86p dual mono amps, Yamaha NS1000m

  7. #7
    Join Date: Nov 2008

    Location: belgrade serbia

    Posts: 840
    I'm gordan.

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    has anyone ever tested slagle AVC vs tribute AVC?

    i think tribute is the only inductive volume control worth of having i haven't had yet in my room.
    Gordan.
    Speakers: Oris Swing MkII
    Amps: Thomas Mayer 300b/ Hiraga La Maison de L'Audiophile 20
    Preamp: Silver AVC by eng. Ferenc Lazar
    Phono Preamp: Shishido LCR by Solaja Audio
    Decks: Garrard 301 Martin Bastin reworked/plinthed with Fidelity Research FR64fx
    Garrard 401 in eng Ferenc Lazar solid wenge plinth with SME 3012/2
    Cartridges: SPU Spirit/ Koetsu Black revisited by eng. Salai/ Miyajima Shilabe
    Step Up Transformers: Tango MCT 999/ Ortofon T-5000/ Lumiere SUT
    Digital: Shigaclone by eng. Ferenc Lazar with Lampizator Amber II
    Wires: of sufficient length

  8. #8
    Bigman80 Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by anubisgrau View Post
    has anyone ever tested slagle AVC vs tribute AVC?

    i think tribute is the only inductive volume control worth of having i haven't had yet in my room.
    I had a Slagle. If you like passive preamps, it's definitely one to look into. It was here for a decent spell and I loved it. I wanted more bass control due to my boomy room and decided to go active in order to achieve this. It wasn't easy to find something that outperformed it and whilst the DCB1 Dora's outperform it in my system, it is more expensive.

  9. #9
    Join Date: Nov 2008

    Location: belgrade serbia

    Posts: 840
    I'm gordan.

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    I had a several Slagle based machines in my room, and currently I own EMIA AVC preamp. It's good but I currently listen a test unit of the new local product, AVC with silver woundings. Seriously better but at cost and still a prototype. I asked about Tribute because I have their SUT which plays excellent for relatively reasonable money - for my taste better than most of the things you can buy s/h for about 400-500 what it costs, so I expect their volume controls to be second to none. I also like Pieter's latest product, a combo of output transformers and volume control, though not sure if this is the position to put AVC - should be at the inputs, at least by the book

    DCB1 - I noticed proliferation of the product here and I know nothing about it. Was there a group buy? I know Pass B1 and frankly not a big fan of it, technically precise and neutral but not very musical, but I'm open for surprises.
    Gordan.
    Speakers: Oris Swing MkII
    Amps: Thomas Mayer 300b/ Hiraga La Maison de L'Audiophile 20
    Preamp: Silver AVC by eng. Ferenc Lazar
    Phono Preamp: Shishido LCR by Solaja Audio
    Decks: Garrard 301 Martin Bastin reworked/plinthed with Fidelity Research FR64fx
    Garrard 401 in eng Ferenc Lazar solid wenge plinth with SME 3012/2
    Cartridges: SPU Spirit/ Koetsu Black revisited by eng. Salai/ Miyajima Shilabe
    Step Up Transformers: Tango MCT 999/ Ortofon T-5000/ Lumiere SUT
    Digital: Shigaclone by eng. Ferenc Lazar with Lampizator Amber II
    Wires: of sufficient length

  10. #10
    Bigman80 Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by anubisgrau View Post
    I had a several Slagle based machines in my room, and currently I own EMIA AVC preamp. It's good but I currently listen a test unit of the new local product, AVC with silver woundings. Seriously better but at cost and still a prototype. I asked about Tribute because I have their SUT which plays excellent for relatively reasonable money - for my taste better than most of the things you can buy s/h for about 400-500 what it costs, so I expect their volume controls to be second to none. I also like Pieter's latest product, a combo of output transformers and volume control, though not sure if this is the position to put AVC - should be at the inputs, at least by the book

    DCB1 - I noticed proliferation of the product here and I know nothing about it. Was there a group buy? I know Pass B1 and frankly not a big fan of it, technically precise and neutral but not very musical, but I'm open for surprises.
    The DCB1 is available from Tea-Bag of DIYaudio. Comes in a kit form and has to be assembled by the end user. There are ways of getting a built one though.

    Personally, I don't find the DCB1 to be anything other than transparent and precise. Is there embellishment? No, it's completely accurate.

    I'm sure there are people that wouldn't like it's style but I love it.

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