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Thread: Coherent RTZ GROUNDING BOX

  1. #1
    Bigman80 Guest

    Default Coherent RTZ GROUNDING BOX

    I had Alan visit today with the Coherent RTZ grounding box. I must say straight off the bat that I didn't know what to expect. I use a BMU for all parts except the amplifier (Krell KSA 100 MK2) which is plugged directly into the wall.

    The Source was Vinyl via my SP10 MK2/Kontrapunkt B/PMAT1010

    Phonostage was the Bigbottle into the DCB1 preamp.

    We started off with a track I know very well:

    Paul Simon - Under African Skies

    We did an acclimatization of the system without the RTZ in the system before we got going.

    We put the box in and started the track again. Instantly I could hear that the box was having an effect.

    At the end of the track, Alan and I discussed what we each heard. Alan felt the bass got tighter but I didn't feel it was "tighter" I actually felt the bass had hardened and wasn't quite as descriptive.

    We decided to play the track again.

    After the second, more intent listen, I had more concerns. The transients had been lost and the (artificially reproduced) room acoustics on the recording were missing. I suspected this in the first evaluation but was sidetracked by focusing on the effect it had on the bass.

    Again we discussed what we heard.

    I was absolutely convinced that the normally cavernous soundstage had gone, the chest cavity was no longer audible and everything sounded a little flat.

    We then took the RTZ grounding box out.

    As I suspected, the sounstage returned to its huge size, transients returned and to be honest, it was just better all round.

    The ambience and detail was completely sucked out by the RTZ and I am totally perplexed by it.

    We then tried: David Bowie - Stoned Love

    I picked this track because of the hand claps at the start, and the large amount of reverb on the track.

    Again, with the RTZ in circuit, it was flat. The reverb didn't decay, it just didn't happen and in the end Alan told me to turn it off. It just sounded shit. We tried it again without the box and again, without it we were listening to a great track, full of layers and depth. It was not subtle. I'm very serious about that.

    Obviously, there will be claims of "in a balanced system" and all that jazz, but this system IS balanced. It IS high quality. It is a superb tool at revealing the qualities of anything you plug into it. Nothing is able to hide in the chain. I compiled it to be exactly that. Revealing.

    I can only surmise that the suspicions I had before it came here, that if you properly sort the mains out, either by a BMU or some megastructure in your garden, it's unlikely to have such a large effect.

    In Alan's system, the result is totally the opposite. It helps his system to perform better but here it killed everything. Alan's had better space in the soundstage and definitely appeared more revealing. I think I now need to revisit Alan's system and do the same tracks there.

    What I can now say, CONCLUSIVELY, is that it does do something. It just may not be entirely desirable.
    Last edited by Bigman80; 22-02-2019 at 08:25.

  2. #2
    Join Date: Apr 2012

    Location: Southall, West London

    Posts: 51,621
    I'm Geoff.

    Default

    Perhaps you'll now receive suggestions that your system was not suitably matched (to it?). Or that the box was not used correctly. Or that the mains supply in your area has adverse effects. Or that the nasty Hi-Fi demons have cursed you!
    It is impossible for anything digital to sound analogue, because it isn't analogue!

  3. #3
    Join Date: Jan 2009

    Location: Essex

    Posts: 31,775
    I'm openingabottleofwine.

    Default

    I have read somewhere that it is not a good idea to mix gear running off a balanced mains supply with gear fed by unbalanced (conventional) mains in the same system. Something to do with a potential safety issue - but I can't think at the moment what that might be.
    Barry

  4. #4
    Bigman80 Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry View Post
    I have read somewhere that it is not a good idea to mix gear running off a balanced mains supply with gear fed by unbalanced (conventional) mains in the same system. Something to do with a potential safety issue - but I can't think at the moment what that might be.
    Not sure what could be an issue but Its universally accepted and recommended to plug a power amp into the wall.

    I'm sure someone will provide info.

  5. #5
    Bigman80 Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by walpurgis View Post
    Perhaps you'll now receive suggestions that your system was not suitably matched (to it?). Or that the box was not used correctly. Or that the mains supply in your area has adverse effects. Or that the nasty Hi-Fi demons have cursed you!
    I don't know what folk will say mate. All I can say is what I heard and it's a shame it didn't work here. I'm happy to add anything that will improve the system.

  6. #6
    Join Date: Mar 2008

    Location: Galashiels

    Posts: 13,664
    I'm inthescottishmafia.

    Default

    It’s not recommended because theoretically, under the right fault conditions a potential difference could exist between the chassis of balanced connected gear to that of unbanced connected gear, certainly enough to cause harm. It’s unlikely but possible.

    Good article here-

    https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.s...s-writes%3famp
    “Music has always been a matter of energy to me, a question of fuel. Sentimental people call it inspiration, but what they really mean is fuel. I have always needed fuel. I am a serious consumer. On some nights I still believe that a car with the gas needle on empty can run about fifty more miles if you have the right music very loud on the radio”

    Hunter S Thompson

  7. #7
    Join Date: May 2008

    Location: Londiniumsville

    Posts: 361
    I'm Robin.

    Default

    Interesting. We’ll see if these boxes survive the test of time or whether it will become another bubble that eventually bursts.
    Robin. mit ARC CD9, ARC ref 5 / darTZeel power + magico v2. Clearaudio Innovation wood / Phantom ll / Lyra Atlas / Aurorasound Vida,
    Stax 009S cans.KGGG headamp. all connected with wires. Auralic Aries - Aqua La Scala. Manley Absolute. Focal Stellias. HD800S Hyland headphones - Venus

  8. #8
    Join Date: Oct 2012

    Location: The Black Country

    Posts: 6,088
    I'm Alan.

    Default

    I can confirm that the effects in the two systems are polar opposites.

    It is very baffling that what I have heard in my system, and others in their systems, is an opening of the soundstage, with more space, air and realism.
    In Oli's system the RTZ removed the air and space that was already there making the soundstage flat and dull.

    The conclusion can only be that it is system dependent.

    I do reiterate that I am more than happy that I have put one into my system as it has been a very worthwhile upgrade.

  9. #9
    Join Date: Oct 2012

    Location: The Black Country

    Posts: 6,088
    I'm Alan.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by doodoos View Post
    Interesting. We’ll see if these boxes survive the test of time or whether it will become another bubble that eventually bursts.
    It is interesting but I certainly don't see it as a bubble that will burst as you put it.

  10. #10
    Join Date: Jan 2009

    Location: Essex

    Posts: 31,775
    I'm openingabottleofwine.

    Default

    Thanks for that link Al. In fact I hoped you would respond, knowing you both use a BMU in your system and work in the electrical distribution business.

    Actually I had seen that item before, but could not remember where. I have now bookmarked it.

    Clearly, any competently designed BMU needs to have a circuit breaker fitted to both legs of the secondary winding, and for the two breakers to be mechanically linked, so if one trips the other is also disconnected.
    Barry

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