Subjective tests that proves audiophiles can hear differences?

[Pharos]

Actually Marco the chickens were of a similar category, all non free range and non corn fed, and of comparable marketing position. Of course keeping only one variable must be done to maximise a difference 'proof'.

It has taken me a year to habituate to my Betas, and I have spent much of that time thinking I had made a mistake, and because I had habituated to my own (relatively) flawed design, for several years.
But last evening, and believe it or not, on a two hour FM programme I realised just what they can, and do do; it is the best sound I have ever had by far, and it this because of what they don't do.

[Yomanze]

The only evidence you need is your ears.
The scale of any observable differences will be dependent on the supporting kit, but I for one have heard a big improvement with a better I/C.

I agree, which is precisely why you need to get your eyes and awareness of what variable is being changed out of the way.

Each time I make a little change, it is almost like my brain is trying to listen out for it. It’s easy to mistake this for a difference.

ABX testing works well if you are very aware of the system i.e. it’s your own, but falls flat on its arse IMO with unfamiliar gear, too many new variables. Perhaps this is why it gets a bad rap.

[Gaz]

I agree, which is precisely why you need to get your eyes and awareness of what variable is being changed out of the way.

Each time I make a little change, it is almost like my brain is trying to listen out for it. It’s easy to mistake this for a difference.

ABX testing works well if you are very aware of the system i.e. it’s your own, but falls flat on its arse IMO with unfamiliar gear, too many new variables. Perhaps this is why it gets a bad rap.

When you demo new equipment you're doing exactly the same thing though, listening to unfamiliar gear.

ABX testing is infallible right up to the point when somebody disagrees with results lol

[GrahamS]

Well, I have a set of interconnects that sound like shite compared to the Fisual Rio interconnects that I replaced them with and this result is consistently repeatable by simple comparison with any good music. So there!

[Macca]

The problem is people have no idea how cognition works; fact is we 'hear' with our brains and the brain adds all sorts to the mix from all the information it has available, not just what it receives via the ears. So we are all subject to hearing effects and changes that simply don't exist. This is a classic bake-off tale, nicked from another forum:

The cables were very expensive JPS. They came in a very nice Aluminium box. There were speaker cables and mains cables. The owner was very enthusiastic about the performance gains. Due to Geoff (Oldius) have two big rooms for the bake off, it was a ideal stiuation to try some cable swapping.
To make it straight forward, we decided to try just a mains lead on the amplifier. The amp was a very fine sounding Lentek amp. Two cables were used, a JPS mains cable and a normal "kettle lead" mains cable. We initially went from Kettle lead then JPS lead, then swopping back and forth. Both the leads were plugged into a mains block and each was swapped over when in use. The amp volume was kept the same.
The cables were swapped quite a few times. TBH, most of the people listening couldn't here a difference between the two. The owner of the cables seemed to be ecstatic when his JPS cables were in place. This did led to some people looking perplexed.
Each time I changed the cable, I had to go behind the equipment and out of sight. As I was going to change the cable to the JPS, I had the brainwave of not changing the "kettle lead". I popped my head up and said "ready".
So people thought the cable that they were listening to was the JPS. I did the "change" a few times, each time popping out of sight behind the equipment & not changing anything plus keeping the "kettle lead" in. Most didn't hear differences but the owner and maybe one or two others thought it was loads better when they thought the JPS was in.
After doing this a few times, I got a fellow bake off buff to observe what I was doing and to keep quiet.
I addressed the audience asking if they could hear big differences and asked what they heard in the last change. The owner did wax lyrically about the JPS. But then I dropped the bombshell of not changing the cables. The witness backed it up. Their were interesting looks on people's faces


Not that it stops me from doing sighted comparisons because it is fun and proper blind AB or ABX procedures are tedious in the extreme. But findings from sighted tests should always be taken with a dose of salt. Even mine!

[sq225917]

Goldmund.
6K and it was a repackaged 200 bucks Pioneer DVD player inside.
Remember it as I had the Pioneer at the time.

For the record that pioneer DVD player has one of the best spdif outputs ever. Its outputs an actual square wave with incredibly low timing error as it uses a memory buffer output. Way ahead of any other transport.

[walpurgis]

Yup. I just love listening to those square waves.

[Gaz]

For the record that pioneer DVD player has one of the best spdif outputs ever. Its outputs an actual square wave with incredibly low timing error as it uses a memory buffer output. Way ahead of any other transport.

Accepted, but that doesn't justify charging £6k for it.

[Pharos]

This thread is starting to provoke an 'itch' in me.

I have now what I consider a very good system in building block terms, but the whole issue of tweeks raises its head because I am wondering if I am sabotaging its performance with my, established with a previous set-up, view that cables, stands, spikes etc were inconsequential.

So guys, do I start again to re-evaluate my position? How certain is anybody that there is ground to be gained?

[AJSki2fly]

This thread is starting to provoke an 'itch' in me.

I have now what I consider a very good system in building block terms, but the whole issue of tweeks raises its head because I am wondering if I am sabotaging its performance with my, established with a previous set-up, view that cables, stands, spikes etc were inconsequential.

So guys, do I start again to re-evaluate my position? How certain is anybody that there is ground to be gained?

Absolutely! I spent £20 on some sorbothane feet recently to try and isolate my valve amps a bit more from vibrations, and the difference was immediate, much better definition and detail (I was sceptical before, because of see expensive isolation platforms) see https://www.ebay.co.uk/i/291033962969?chn=ps as an example, if you use these then you need to but the right size for the weight of the gear you are putting on them. Also I have over the years replaced interconnects and have generally done so with home trials first and got a friend to blind swap them for me, for me there always has been a difference not always for the better, but I have ended up with what I like for my budget. Speaker cable can make quite a bit of difference as well.

Have fun.