In defence of the CD player

[da2222]

Last week while considering a change in digital direction I asked about the relative merits of streaming/ripping CDs to FLAC on a dedicated server. Based on responses and some careful reflection thereafter I've decided to continue spinning the shiny doughnuts on a quality transport. Why? Some of my considerations are as follows:

Sound quality

Most of those with experience of true 'high-end' CDPs implied that the sound from streaming/ dedicated server/DAC etc was not quite up to the mark, regardless of price. A step down in sound quality would be vexing. Already a deal breaker...

Convenience/ ease of use/ efficiency:

Ok, leaving absolute sound aside for a moment, streaming etc is an ordered, efficient and immediate solution with detailed metadata close at hand. Music at the flick of the index finger, perfectly in sync with our present tech and social realities. But is it? Forgetting any initial hardware and software learning curve, firstly I have to locate the laptop/tablet/smartphone in whichever room in the house it may be hiding in next to the car keys and upon doing so hope it is charged. Thereafter insert a password, access an app, scroll through a vast array of titles before selecting a track(s). Compare this to walking across the room, choosing a CD, removing it from its cover, inserting in the machine and pressing play. Habit dictates that most of us can physically locate an album without unnecessary delay. It reminds me a little of a sharp marketing strategy applied to a 'lifestyle' range of frozen pasta meals- "Quattro Salti in Padella"- aimed at young harried Northern Italians, eager to streamline their ever more hectic existence and reclaim precious time with smarter choices. The fact is, most of the meals take up to 20 minutes to cook which is similar, and in some cases, even longer than it would to make an equivalent meal from scratch with fresh, wholesome ingredients. Perception is everything.

Storage and clutter:

It's true, a vast CD collection requires space and can be an added curse towards domestic harmony. However how many who have long since ripped their CDs hang on to them 'just in case'? Maybe in the loft or under the bed but still there, somewhere...

Just a few reasons why I'm looking forward to the addition of a new-used - Bel Canto CDP 2...

[Sherwood]

Most of those with experience of true 'high-end' CDPs implied that the sound from streaming/ dedicated server/DAC etc was not quite up to the mark, regardless of price. A step down in sound quality would be vexing. Already a deal breaker...


I go by my own listening experience. Are you saying you have not done your own direct comparison between a top flight CDP and high quality streamer?

[da2222]

I haven't unfortunately, I was referring to those who have and who commented on the thread... https://theartofsound.net/forum/show...streaming-FLAC

[Sherwood]

As to convenience, Audivarna catalogues my entire FLAC collection and ensures good integration with Tidal. I can locate any file or album in a few keystrokes and create unlimited playlists. If I so desire I can listen to other peoples playlists or to curated collections by genre. I can also download Tidal files to my phone or tablet to play back whilst on the move.

I have kept all my ripped cds just in case a catastrophic media failure destroys my files, but also because I respect the intellectual property rights of performers. It is a pain storing over 3,000 cds, but fortunately I don't have to keep them in the lounge. The are all in Really Useful Box Company crates with copious amounts of silica gel.

None of this would matter if SQ was compromised. It is not!

Geoff

[da2222]

As to convenience, Audivarna catalogues my entire FLAC collection and ensures good integration with Tidal. I can locate any file or album in a few keystrokes and create unlimited playlists. If I so desire I can listen to other peoples playlists or to curated collections by genre. I can also download Tidal files to my phone or tablet to play back whilst on the move.

I have kept all my ripped cds just in case a catastrophic media failure destroys my files, but also because I respect the intellectual property rights of performers. It is a pain storing over 3,000 cds, but fortunately I don't have to keep them in the lounge. The are all in Really Useful Box Company crates with copious amounts of silica gel.

None of this would matter if SQ was compromised. It is not!

Geoff

Interesting comment, thanks Geoff. Can I ask what CDPs you used prior to streaming?

[Sherwood]

Interesting comment, thanks Geoff. Can I ask what CDPs you used prior to streaming?

The last CDP I owned was the top model Cambridge CDP with 384hz upsampling (can't remember the model number). However, as I have mentioned elsewhere, before going fully to streaming I had extended home demos of Naim and Cyrus players and shorter trials of players including a Roksan Caspian M2, and various big brand models. This was around 4 years ago when I was thinking of getting a new CDP as part of my system rebuilding. Was not really impressed by anything so made the jump fully to streaming and have gradually found a system that I find very revealing and which I can play for extended periods without fatigue. My budget at that time was around 2K and I may have found a CDP player to suit if I was willing to spend more. However, at this point I really don't want to invest hugely in technology developed decades ago.

Geoff

[Macca]

However, at this point I really don't want to invest hugely in technology developed decades ago.

Geoff

There's no new technology in streaming. Digital audio is still digital audio regardless of it being streamed or on a cd. And it was all developed decades ago. It's the implementation that is everything, cd vs file debate is irrelevant.


I had the same Cambridge CD player as you, (840C) it wasn't up to much IMO.

[struth]

Think it was £800 12 years ago so fairly high up in the mid range.
The point is if a person thinks cd is best then it's likely to be so for the person
Same with vinyl or streaming for that matter.
I still have all three. Don't make any claims as to how hi end it is or any of that but it sounds damn good. Ive heard a few good systems as well. To just demean streaming as 'not up to it' is pretty arrogant imv.

[Sherwood]

There's no new technology in streaming. Digital audio is still digital audio regardless of it being streamed or on a cd. And it was all developed decades ago. It's the implementation that is everything, cd vs file debate is irrelevant.


I had the same Cambridge CD player as you, (840C) it wasn't up to much IMO.

Yes digital is digital but CD was an implementation of digital that was driven largely by marketing concerns (i.e. the desire to resell music that you had already purchased in an earlier format) and by limitations of the technology of the time (hence the barely adequate sampling rates). It is surprising (to me) that cds produced in the 80s can still sound pretty decent today, but in my view there are many factors which will see this technology be gradually replaced by higher bitrate recordings with the ability, perhaps, to control individual tracks.Digital evolves, as the exponential rise of streaming services in recent decades has demonstrated.

In the case of analogue, an Edison wax cylinder and a modern 33.33rpm both employ the same "writing technology" to "permanently" record airborne sound waves to a physical medium. Both technologies were of their time and part of an evolutionary process that has parallels with today. In fact, the "classic album format" so beloved of many members of this forum embodied compression techniques to get 40 minutes of good quality sound onto two sides of a single 12 inch disc. The fact that this 40 minute window shaped decades of artists work is an artefact of physics and technology.

Geoff

[Barry]

What compression techniques are used to get 40 minutes of music onto the two sides of a 12" diameter LP? As far as I know the artist(e)s involved simply perform and record pieces of music that are, or add up to, no more than 20 minutes.

It is said (perhaps apocryphal) that the total playing time of a CD was chosen to be at least 60 minutes long, so Beethoven's 9th Symphony could be recorded onto a single disc. Most LP versions required two LPs.


With streaming one is, in principle, not limited in time - so can we expect artists to now create 'albums' lasting longer than 74 minutes (the longest amount of time a 5" CD allows)?