12AT7 / ECC81 id please?

[goraman]

They are Ratheon International, they are not stamped made in U.S.A.
I suspect Japan but I don't know of any Japanese tubes with plate getters.
I am no expert and don't get date codes either ,they have a J-02. I keep thinking they may be Toshiba or Panasonic 1960's 1970's.
The some of best 12AT7 /12AX7 ever made are Ratheon black plates made in the U.S.
But these are not those.
Here is the auction I won. There are really good pictures at the bottom . https://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-NIB-New...53.m2749.l2649

Opera Snapshot_2018-10-28_170156_www.ebay.com.jpg

[goraman]

Better pictures.
The plates are ribbed black, the getter is a flare disk.
These are different, has anyone else seen these tubes?