WTD: Technics SP10 , Denon DP80

[montesquieu]

For different reasons I'm pretty much set on 309 ATM, only other arm I'd buy would be 312 , but not yet .
I could fit CA Satisfy but it sits on Clearaudio TT and probably I'll sell it in the near future.

zzzzzzzz .....

But seriously there are a ton of fantastic arms out there, yes SME 309/V design looks cool to those of us of a certain age that remember their space-age cool when they arrived on the scene but you are really restricting yourself if turntable choice is driven by the limitations of a tonearm. I always view things the other way round.

There are better, more versatile arms for the money (even from SME! ... I'd take the M2-9R myself - having owned the 12in version).

Have you looked at the Timestep T609 or T610? I didn't pay much more than SME309 retail for my s/h Ikeda IT345 which is an entirely different performance category altogether. And you aren't stuck with using just one headshell.

[Wegamus]

zzzzzzzz .....

But seriously there are a ton of fantastic arms out there, yes SME 309/V design looks cool to those of us of a certain age that remember their space-age cool when they arrived on the scene but you are really restricting yourself if turntable choice is driven by the limitations of a tonearm. I always view things the other way round.

There are better, more versatile arms for the money (even from SME! ... I'd take the M2-9R myself - having owned the 12in version).

Have you looked at the Timestep T609 or T610? I didn't pay much more than SME309 retail for my s/h Ikeda IT345 which is an entirely different performance category altogether. And you aren't stuck with using just one headshell.

I’ve got a Timestep T-612 on the way for my Audio Grail 301 project - reports seem very positive and should be good with my SPU Classic GMII. I could’ve gone for an SME M2-12R or Jelco but the Timestep really interests me. Maybe a 9” Jelco would be nice for my second arm? Would love to get a good mono cartridge for it. Maybe Miyajima Kotetu or mono SPU.

[montesquieu]

I’ve got a Timestep T-612 on the way for my Audio Grail 301 project - reports seem very positive and should be good with my SPU Classic GMII. I could’ve gone for an SME M2-12R or Jelco but the Timestep really interests me. Maybe a 9” Jelco would be nice for my second arm? Would love to get a good mono cartridge for it. Maybe Miyajima Kotetu or mono SPU.

Yes I had the Timestep T612 for a bit and thought it sounded very good indeed .. but as luck would have it the following week I found an Ikeda IT407 for sensible money and jumped to that. Otherwise it would still be here.

There's been a 9in Jelko (the new one, the TK-850) for sale at a very good price over on PFM for a while. I heard the 12in version and thought was was superb. I'd put the Timestep ahead but not by much. It's streets ahead of the old SA750.

[Wegamus]

Yes I had the Timestep T612 for a bit and thought it sounded very good indeed .. but as luck would have it the following week I found an Ikeda IT407 for sensible money and jumped to that. Otherwise it would still be here.

There's been a 9in Jelko (the new one, the TK-850) for sale at a very good price over on PFM for a while. I heard the 12in version and thought was was superb. I'd put the Timestep ahead but not by much. It's streets ahead of the old SA750.

Yes Tom, your review did help make my decision on the Timestep. I’m sure it’ll be great.

I’ve seen that Jelco on PFM and have been thinking about buying it. Looks great value and after speaking to Hugo at Ammonite Audio I’m quite interested in their new models.

I’ve heard that getting correct alignment with an Ikeda is often impossible due to the unusual bend in the arm tube. Have you had any difficulties with your Ikeda arms?

[montesquieu]

Yes Tom, your review did help make my decision on the Timestep. I’m sure it’ll be great.

I’ve seen that Jelco on PFM and have been thinking about buying it. Looks great value and after speaking to Hugo at Ammonite Audio I’m quite interested in their new models.

I’ve heard that getting correct alignment with an Ikeda is often impossible due to the unusual bend in the arm tube. Have you had any difficulties with your Ikeda arms?

My Ikeda 9in (IT345) is a modern one - made by the new people after Ikeda retired in 2011 - and it's spot on for cartridges at SPU distance (52mm) at the official 230mm.

My 12in arm is an early one supposedly made by Ikeda himself and it's slightly more problematic. The issue I think is that a standard distance for Japanese headshells presumes 50mm from start of the headshell to stylus tip. Ortofon themselves say the SPU is 51mm, but when you measure the typical SPU it's more like 52mm or just very slightly less. I standardised on 52mm for all my headshells and that meant slightly adjusting the spindle to pivot distance by an additional 1.5mm from the official 295mm to 296.5. (I've see other maths-heavy calculations that end up at 296.6 which would appear to back up where I ended up). For me that aligns more or less perfectly for Baerwald on my various protractors (I mainly use a Dr Freickert for measurement). You have a bit more leeway on a 12in arm anyway. I'm actually a Stevenson fan but I can live with Baerwald. Took a bit of experimentation and head scratching to work it out though.

[mac72]

zzzzzzzz .....

But seriously there are a ton of fantastic arms out there, yes SME 309/V design looks cool to those of us of a certain age that remember their space-age cool when they arrived on the scene but you are really restricting yourself if turntable choice is driven by the limitations of a tonearm. I always view things the other way round.

There are better, more versatile arms for the money (even from SME! ... I'd take the M2-9R myself - having owned the 12in version).

Have you looked at the Timestep T609 or T610? I didn't pay much more than SME309 retail for my s/h Ikeda IT345 which is an entirely different performance category altogether. And you aren't stuck with using just one headshell.

Yes , you're correct I like the looks of SME309 but more importantly it works/matches with all cartridges I use ( high to medium compliance) but you say I should use high mass arm instead ( 9gram vs 26-28gram) ???????????
M2-9 don't actually solve mounting challenge as the sled is of similar size and mounting distance is the same.

[montesquieu]

Yes , you're correct I like the looks of SME309 but more importantly it works/matches with all cartridges I use ( high to medium compliance) but you say I should use high mass arm instead ( 9gram vs 26-28gram) ???????????
M2-9 don't actually solve mounting challenge as the sled is of similar size and mounting distance is the same.

M2-9R is 9.5g effective mass it’s not a high mass arm. And you have loads of headshell choices short and longer.

I don’t understand your problem. Is it true mounting distance on the TT? The main driver of the choice of arm (even before matching the cartridge compliance which is of course critical ) is the spindle to pivot distance. Can it really be as short as 185mm? What’s the distance in MM from the platter spindle to the centre/ideal mounting point on the armboard? Do you have an alignment tool like a Dr Freickert it Clearaudio ? (More useful than the SME one)

[mac72]

High mass comment was aimed at Ikeda and Timstep arms ,
problem is quite simple , in case of DD drives mounting distance is limited by body of the drive as oppose to just a platter diameter .
SME309 mounting arrangement is based on a sled as opposed to just a pillar , sled is obviously bigger which in some cases makes it not possible to achieve ~215mm pivot to spindle distance (Baerwald null points - my preferred) , hence I'm looking for TTS800 or SP10 as their body is a bit smaller and I could install 309 , and yes I have dr Feickert but I also made some CAD drawings to check above.

[montesquieu]

So what you need is either a longer arm (310?) or one that doesn’t use a sled ...?

[mac72]

So what you need is either a longer arm (310?) or one that doesn’t use a sled ...?

Yes that's right , at some point I'm planning on buying v12 or 312 but at the moment 309 has to do hence interest in mentioned drives only