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Thread: Soundstage

  1. #21
    Join Date: Sep 2011

    Location: County Durham, UK

    Posts: 151
    I'm Gordon.

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    Thanks, Martin - and you are spot on with the room and the mixing engineer. If the mixing engineer has done a good job then I think the secret sauce for speakers that image well and produce a big soundstage is polar response (ie driver radiation pattern or directivity). The shape of the upper baffle on the LX521 is designed to ensure that the radiation pattern is the same (well, as near as possible) for all frequencies even though there are three different drivers involved. Siegfried Linkwitz, Earl Geddes and Floyd Toole, all designers that I admire, are proponents of constant directivity design for speakers.

    Some of the best new speakers I've heard in the last few years are the Kii Threes and the Dutch & Dutch 8Cs. Both are using DSP to control directivity and I've always been impressed by the soundstage and imaging whenever I've heard these speakers. I guess you can say they are a new generation of speakers in a way as they are almost completely self-contained - fully active with amps for each driver in the box, dsp and connectivity for just about whatever source components you want to use. But mix and match they are not so may take the fun out of this hobby for some.

    When it comes to soundstage I think the physical size can have a major impact. I've just started experimenting with my Maggies in a 5.1 configuration (MG2.5Rs for L/R, CC2 for centre, MG1s for surrounds) together with the LX521 bass modules. This is as close to what Toole calls envelopment as I've heard. The images are more diffuse than what I get with the LX521, but are positioned nicely in the soundstage. Although the LX521 can throw a big soundtage the Maggie 5.1 system is grander in scale and has a very relaxed, but still detailed presentation. I've never had much desire to go down the multi speaker route, but they have been quite a revelation.


  2. #22
    Join Date: Jan 2009

    Location: Essex

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    I'm openingabottleofwine.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Macca View Post
    We'll have to disagree. Mixing for soundstage isn't done on headphones. You need speakers to create a soundstage. I don't know what phenomena/illusion you are talking about with headphones but it isn't anything created intentionally in the studio.

    Soundstage should always be behind the plane of the speakers as well. Soundstage 'in front' of the speakers is wrong, it shows that the system is not accurate.

    I'd be interested in a pointer to any psychological research that shows that some people cannot hear stereo effects (unless their hearing is damaged). That sounds very unlikely to me.
    Depends on the recording: on a few the soloist can apper to be slightly in front of the plane of the speakers.

    But in general most of the soundstage should appear to lay behind the speakers. And the width of the soundstage can, and often will, extend beyond the speakers.

    As the late Peter Walker of Quad said "somewhere just beyond the plane of the speakers, the walls of your listening room should disappear and be replaced by those of the auditorium ".
    Barry

  3. #23
    Join Date: Oct 2018

    Location: Forest of Dean

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    I'm Gary.

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    This is one aspect that is interesting, most speakers don't project sound backwards so how does the soundstage appear to be behind them?
    Marantz CD63 KI Signature
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  4. #24
    Join Date: Aug 2012

    Location: South Beds, UK

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    I'm Mike.

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    [QUOTE
    As the late Peter Walker of Quad said "somewhere just beyond the plane of the speakers, the walls of your listening room should disappear and be replaced by those of the auditorium ".[/QUOTE]

    Soundstage and imaging are the most important elements in my Hi-Fi replay. The above quote illustrates perfectly how my current set-up performs and is what I aim for. I do listen near field though, which helps, as room reflections are minimal.
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  5. #25
    Join Date: Apr 2017

    Location: Manningtree, Essex

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    I'm Tony.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Idlewithnodrive View Post
    [QUOTE
    As the late Peter Walker of Quad said "somewhere just beyond the plane of the speakers, the walls of your listening room should disappear and be replaced by those of the auditorium ".
    Soundstage and imaging are the most important elements in my Hi-Fi replay. The above quote illustrates perfectly how my current set-up performs and is what I aim for. I do listen near field though, which helps, as room reflections are minimal.[/QUOTE]

    Same


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  6. #26
    Join Date: Mar 2010

    Location: Sheffield

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    I'm Simon.

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    Isn't it a combination if speaker polar response, boundary and reflection, mic placement and head related transfer function.

    Everyone hears it differently based on hrtf.

    I was at a piano recital on Saturday, Angela Hewitt in the round at the Crucible, there was no soundstage at all, just a piano in the middle of the room with no reflections to speak of, just mono sound coming from a six by ten foot space. Totally unlike any gig I've ever been to.
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  7. #27
    Join Date: Jun 2015

    Location: London/Durham

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    I'm Lawrence.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RothwellAudio View Post
    No. There's a fundamental difference between headphones and loudspeakers: when listening with headphones the left ear can only hear the left channel, whereas with speakers the left ear can hear both channels. Same for the right ear, obviously. So with headphones there is strict channel separation but with speakers there's a certain amount of "bleed" between channels.


    Binaural recordings are designed for headphone playback.


    Yes, I agree.
    There are headphone amps with crossfeed that electronically create the L/R crosstalk, I had a Meier Audio one and liked the facility.

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  8. #28
    Join Date: Feb 2013

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lawrence001 View Post
    There are headphone amps with crossfeed that electronically create the L/R crosstalk, I had a Meier Audio one and liked the facility.

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    Yup jriver does it too
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  9. #29
    Join Date: Oct 2017

    Location: Coventry

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    I'm Mick.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaz View Post
    This is one aspect that is interesting, most speakers don't project sound backwards so how does the soundstage appear to be behind them?
    This clip answers your question at around 5 mins.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OI7DA886-9o

    Last edited by Mixc; 19-10-2018 at 04:44. Reason: try to add video

  10. #30
    Join Date: Apr 2008

    Location: east yorkshire

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    I'm steve.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mixc View Post
    This clip answers your question at around 5 mins.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OI7DA886-9o

    I would disagree with his opinion... Mic placement and varies so much and many mics are not directional.
    Music moves outwards from the source. Speakers should reproduce this.
    My view on speakers is the better they are, the more 3d or room filling they are.. most speakers do a decent placement or image in 2d( between the speakers) but a decent 3 d oom filling image it seems to go hand in hand with a higher resolution system.
    collector and DIY user of old british triode valves

    Open baffles / single ended diy px4 and px25 valve amps

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