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Thread: Newbie after advice on budget TT

  1. #21
    Join Date: Apr 2012

    Location: N E Kent

    Posts: 51,624
    I'm Geoff.

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    I'd sooner have a Pioneer PL-12D than any of the Dual 505 models or a budget Pro-Ject and as you were considering one, what about the nice example on sale here: https://theartofsound.net/forum/show...M75ED-Serviced It even comes with its original packing, so should arrive in one piece.

    They are an excellent introduction into record playing equipment and dead reliable.

  2. #22
    Join Date: Nov 2011

    Location: Seaton, Devon, UK

    Posts: 13,239
    I'm Adrian.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Manicatel View Post
    Apples & Oranges.
    You’re comparing a £45, 30+ year old semi auto TT, albeit part refurb’d with a budget old cart, & non-standard drive belt with a Pro-Ject which would only be a few years old & with a much better arm & cart, & probably at least twice the cost.
    The Dual motor, pulley, bearing etc is all 30+ years old.
    Don’t get me wrong, my 1st proper TT was exactly that one, a 505-1 & it brings back good memories.
    However, I seriously doubt it would stack up well to a Debut Carbon.
    I think you make a very good point, £50-100 on a secondhand 30 year old TT against a 1-2 year old pro-ject then I’d put my money into the pro-ject, it’s unlikely to have as high mileage as an old Dual, and will probably perform better.
    Listening is the act of aural discrimination and dissemination of sound, and accepting you get it wrong sometimes.

    Analog Inputs: Pro-Ject Signature 10 TT & arm, Benz Micro LP-S, Michel Cusis MC, Goldring 2500 and Ortofon Rondo Blue cartridges, Hitachi FT5500 mk2 Tuner

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    Output: Wilson Benesch Vector speakers, KLH Ultimate One Headphones

    Cables: Tellurium Q Ultra Black II RCA & Chord Epic 2 RCA, various speaker leads, & links


    I think I am nearing audio nirvana, but don’t tell anyone.

  3. #23
    Join Date: Feb 2013

    Location: W Lothian

    Posts: 99,005
    I'm Grant.

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    Think I said b4 I had a project debut carbon speedbox nearly new. Was a nice little deck and sure most would like it's clean lines etc. Sound was remarkably good for the cash and upgrading the cart(usually a red) to a better quality will get returns. This can be done later tho and a red will be fine for starting with
    Regards,
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  4. #24
    Join Date: Oct 2014

    Location: Surrey

    Posts: 549
    I'm Graham.

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    Having owned a pl12d and a dual 510 similar to 505, I consider the pl-12d to be sonically better with a generous pacey sound perfect for 70/80s LPs. It was fitted with a ortofon F15E ii and tbh I was amazed how good it sounded fed into my main system sitting atop an Townshend air suspended stand. Sure not as good as a fully sorted 401 rig, but not the night and day gap obvious with the Dual.

    One big caveat, if you have springy floors and cannot wall mount, dont even consider either deck as needle bounce from footfall will ruin the experience. The pl12d is very bouncy as, unless replaced, the foam inside the springs will have rotted after 40 years.

  5. #25
    montesquieu Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by hifi_dave View Post
    I've had many turntables bought s/hand and from E-Bay in to me for service and set up. Some have been OK and doable but some have been trashed by previous owners and/or in transit.

    The latest was a TD160 with SME Series III arm and cartridge, just plonked in a box with some bubble. In transit the arm was completely smashed and totally useless. the turntable was OK but looked like it had a tough life and not worth the money despite being described as "immaculate"...

    Often, the problem is that the seller doesn't know anything about turntables, having bought it from a car boot sale, charity shop or it's their Dad's. I've had several in where the turntable has been sent in a box with the platter in situ, just held in place by some sticky tape wrapped around it and the plinth. Needless to say, this causes quite a lot of damage.
    +1 I've had a couple of ebay purchased turntables arrived smashed up despite offering packing advice after purchase. To the point where I would only buy there if I could collect. Lenco L75 literally bubble wrapped around the perspex cover, platter arm and cartridge left to flap around, and a Telefunken S600 purchased from Germany purely for the Ortofon tonearm arrived with the arm mangled after the perspex cover shattered.

  6. #26
    montesquieu Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by graham67 View Post
    Having owned a pl12d and a dual 510 similar to 505, I consider the pl-12d to be sonically better with a generous pacey sound perfect for 70/80s LPs. It was fitted with a ortofon F15E ii and tbh I was amazed how good it sounded fed into my main system sitting atop an Townshend air suspended stand. Sure not as good as a fully sorted 401 rig, but not the night and day gap obvious with the Dual.

    One big caveat, if you have springy floors and cannot wall mount, dont even consider either deck as needle bounce from footfall will ruin the experience. The pl12d is very bouncy as, unless replaced, the foam inside the springs will have rotted after 40 years.
    I heard a PL12 that had had an Audio Origami rewire on the arm, extra damping on the plinth, and the suspension fettled as you suggest Graham, and it sounded surprisingly good!

  7. #27
    Join Date: Oct 2014

    Location: Surrey

    Posts: 549
    I'm Graham.

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    Hi tom, not surprised that an arm rewire would reap dividends. The stock arm is very low friction and apart from plastic base seems to be decent quality. After the fuss free solidity of an idler, personally i wouldn't go back to a springy deck, but for the money the pl-12d gives a decent taste of what is good in vinyl.

  8. #28
    Join Date: Sep 2016

    Location: Brussels, Belgium

    Posts: 132
    I'm Tim.

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    Quote Originally Posted by graham67 View Post
    ...After the fuss free solidity of an idler, personally i wouldn't go back to a springy deck, but for the money the pl-12d gives a decent taste of what is good in vinyl.
    Guess you guys are talking of the 'LP12' (as opposed to the "PL12"). Coming from the "fuss free" world of the sturdy decks with my previously dream to have; a Garrard 301 (never owned though) I grew to love and understand my "springy" humble Thorens TD14x-16x hybrid now totally tweaked be me. since I couldn't do without a suspended sub-chassis TT. Such "airy" sound is addictive I find.
    - Cart Denon DL-102 in bakelite Ortofon SPU 'G' type headshell
    - TA SME 3009 'Improved' converted in heavy mass with detachable headshell
    - TT Thorens TD160 'E' totally tweaked driven by an 'Eagle & RoadRunner' PSU & tachometer combo
    - Matts top to bottom: leather, cork, felt & 12" vinyl
    - Pre-amp 'Modulis' Isem
    - Amp 'Exampli' Etalon 2x40W
    - Speakers 12" Leak 'Sandwich' first generation creatively recapped

  9. #29
    Join Date: Apr 2012

    Location: N E Kent

    Posts: 51,624
    I'm Geoff.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tlscapital View Post
    Guess you guys are talking of the 'LP12' (as opposed to the "PL12")
    No. We have definitely been discussing the Pioneer PL-12D. The LP12 does not meet the £100 to £150 requirement stated in the OP.


  10. #30
    Join Date: Apr 2008

    Location: Warrington

    Posts: 3,451
    I'm Neil.

    Default Newbie after advice on budget TT

    Second hand Rega P1?
    Mana Acoustics Racks / Bright Star IsoNodes Decoupling >> Allo DigiOne Player >> Pedja Rogic's Audial Model S DAC + Pioneer PL-71 turntable / Vista Audio phono-1 mk II / Denon PCL-5 headshell / Reson Reca >> LFD DLS >> LFD PA2M (SE) >> Royd RR3s.

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