Denon DL-S1 MC cartridge

[Beobloke]

My favourite modern Ortofon MC is the Cadenza Bronze (now unfortunately discontinued).

Marco.

No it's not...

https://www.ortofon.com/hifi/products/hifi-cartridges

[Bigman80]

A little more after day one of pretty much uninterrupted listening and a complete setup.

The DL-S1 reminds me of the weeks i spent wishing the AT33PTGII had better bass. Not because the AT33 didn't have bass, it didn't have articulate bass. The Denon is quite adept at delivering an extremely detailed bass line whilst having sufficient "beef" to sound full and well formed. The reason it reminds me of the AT33 is the resolution and tonal balance. If in a blind test, i would wager them being from the same stable. What the Denon does better is soundstage. It is huge. Left to right extend way beyond the speakers and its got excellent scale. All of this is on par with the Kb mind you. What i haven't managed to tease out of it yet is depth to the same degree as the Kb. Marco says the DL-S1 isn't quite run in just yet, so i am hoping to see some improvement in that area. What i will say is that it has slightly improved as the day has gone on.

Resolution & Transparency is excellent with this cartridge, every little bit of detail is apparent. Double tracking, harmonies, 12 string guitars are very easy to identify. This area has surprised me a little as i *think* it's slightly better than the Kb although i will be checking that to be sure.

Dynamics, I had been told that this cartridge would probably outdo the Kb for dynamics, but as of yet, i don't hear it that way. The Kb has a little more weight and impact at the moment but as the Denon relaxes that may change. As of right now, the kick drums definitely hit harder on the Kb. That's not to say the DL-S1 doesn't hit hard because its does.

Channel separation is better on the Denon. It's quite clear too. The sense of motion this gives is a little unnerving. I've found myself looking between the speakers for something there. 3D images that pan across the speaker really clearly and obviously. The lick at the start of lucy in the sky with diamonds pan incrementally from left to right with each note. This is an obvious difference between the DL-S1 and the Kb. The Kb does it just not quite as obviously but again, i need to double check this.

Vocals are richer with the Kb and slightly more human sounding but the Denon feels like its a little raw or less refined which on certain tracks, particularly ones with Kurt Cobain, is a real bonus. The Kb sounds very polished and refined but there is a bit of grit about the Denon, in a really good way. It may also be a little less richness which is allowing the Denon to portray less than perfect vocals in a more blatant way. At the moment, i still "feel" vocals a little more with the Kb according to memory but again, its nip and tuck all the way.

The Denon makes the Kb sound a little veiled at times. the DL-S1 is definitely ahead in resolution.

I know its WAY too early to be drawing any conclusions but i thought it'd fun to log the process and how i get to my final decision. I'll make some more notes when i get some more hours in!

I am currently listening to the Rod Steward album "Gasoline Alley". It's actually a really good album to dissect what a cartridge is doing. There are a lot of great guitar riffs and its an album i enjoy immensely. It sounds great !!!

[Bigman80]

you are spot on in regards to the Vienna mate.

I'm waiting for Angus to decide he wants a A95 and sell me the Vienna lol

[Bigman80]

Fair enough dudes, I've not heard a Vienna, but the modern Ortofons I've heard tend to have somewhat of an unnatural tonal balance, which to my ears is just so different from that of their earlier stuff, such as the MC10/20/30, and especially SL-15 (and SPUs).

If you compared the likes of an SL-15 with *any* modern Ortofon MC cartridge, you'd hear *exactly* what I mean, trust me

My favourite modern Ortofon MC is the Cadenza Bronze (now unfortunately discontinued).

Marco.

I haven't heard any of those mate so i'll take your word for it. The Vienna is a dream cartridge. All the finesse, Detail etc but its SO dynamic!! its just divine. I hate it

[Marco]

No it's not...

https://www.ortofon.com/hifi/products/hifi-cartridges

Ah, I thought it was... Am I right in thinking that Noel K is a fan? I seem to remember someone from HFW loved it.

Well then, folks should really get a listen to the CB, as IMO it's a gorgeous listen, neatly straddling the balance between insight and musicality

Marco.

[Marco]

A little more after day one of pretty much uninterrupted listening and a complete setup.

The DL-S1 reminds me of the weeks i spent wishing the AT33PTGII had better bass. Not because the AT33 didn't have bass, it didn't have articulate bass. The Denon is quite adept at delivering an extremely detailed bass line whilst having sufficient "beef" to sound full and well formed. The reason it reminds me of the AT33 is the resolution and tonal balance. If in a blind test, i would wager them being from the same stable. What the Denon does better is soundstage. It is huge. Left to right extend way beyond the speakers and its got excellent scale. All of this is on par with the Kb mind you. What i haven't managed to tease out of it yet is depth to the same degree as the Kb. Marco says the DL-S1 isn't quite run in just yet, so i am hoping to see some improvement in that area. What i will say is that it has slightly improved as the day has gone on.

Resolution & Transparency is excellent with this cartridge, every little bit of detail is apparent. Double tracking, harmonies, 12 string guitars are very easy to identify. This area has surprised me a little as i *think* it's slightly better than the Kb although i will be checking that to be sure.

Dynamics, I had been told that this cartridge would probably outdo the Kb for dynamics, but as of yet, i don't hear it that way. The Kb has a little more weight and impact at the moment but as the Denon relaxes that may change. As of right now, the kick drums definitely hit harder on the Kb. That's not to say the DL-S1 doesn't hit hard because its does.

Channel separation is better on the Denon. It's quite clear too. The sense of motion this gives is a little unnerving. I've found myself looking between the speakers for something there. 3D images that pan across the speaker really clearly and obviously. The lick at the start of lucy in the sky with diamonds pan incrementally from left to right with each note. This is an obvious difference between the DL-S1 and the Kb. The Kb does it just not quite as obviously but again, i need to double check this.

Vocals are richer with the Kb and slightly more human sounding but the Denon feels like its a little raw or less refined which on certain tracks, particularly ones with Kurt Cobain, is a real bonus. The Kb sounds very polished and refined but there is a bit of grit about the Denon, in a really good way. It may also be a little less richness which is allowing the Denon to portray less than perfect vocals in a more blatant way. At the moment, i still "feel" vocals a little more with the Kb according to memory but again, its nip and tuck all the way.

The Denon makes the Kb sound a little veiled at times. the DL-S1 is definitely ahead in resolution.

I know its WAY too early to be drawing any conclusions but i thought it'd fun to log the process and how i get to my final decision. I'll make some more notes when i get some more hours in!

I am currently listening to the Rod Steward album "Gasoline Alley". It's actually a really good album to dissect what a cartridge is doing. There are a lot of great guitar riffs and its an album i enjoy immensely. It sounds great !!!

Good stuff, Ollie. I concur with most of that, and am glad that you're enjoying it. It'll be interesting when you switch back to the KB and your ears instantly tell you what's missing and/or what's been gained

For me, the DL-S1, whilst not perfect (no cartridge is), has some beguiling and unique (highly desirable) qualities that no other cartridge I've heard emulates.

Marco.

[Marco]

I haven't heard any of those mate so i'll take your word for it. The Vienna is a dream cartridge. All the finesse, Detail etc but its SO dynamic!! its just divine. I hate it

Lol... No worries. With me, you have to remember that 95% of the cartridges I like are of the vintage variety, or are based upon vintage design principles. In fact, I'm the same with turntables, amps and speakers...

I wonder why?

Marco.

[montesquieu]

If anything, I'd have said Ortofons can sound a bit "safe" Especially their lower cost MC carts like the Rondo red. I know you've used the Ortofons, Marco. Your opinion on the ones you've used, I'll completely accept but seriously my man, if you can ever get a listen to a Vienna, you'll know why I look for one online, three times a day, sometimes more. THE best cartridge I've ever heard.

Vienna (which was a German market special) and Kontrapunkt B appear to be identical - same body, same FG80 tip, same ruby cantilever, same output, same weight, same compliance, indeed in every single spec ... am I missing something?

[Marco]

Pardon - Not in my experience Marco and I've had a good few of the their mc's - not at all.

In my experience their mc's are as you describe the S1, honest and I've always had a sense of them being true to the groove as they say.

I've found recordings do not sound the same and a bass light one is bass light, If bass is prominant then again you'll hear the weight of the bass line.

Rob, this is fundamentally what I think is missing in most modern Ortofons....

From the website review of the Cadenza Bronze (see here and scroll down: https://www.ortofon.com/mc-cadenza-bronze-p-489-n-1579)

The touch of warmth that Ortofon have infused into the design, results in a cartridge with an easy going nature, which invites a person to listen for hours on end...

To my ears, modern Ortofons (save the CB) have the tendency to sound clinical/lack warmth and, for me (for that reason), don't promote long-term listening. It's just a thing I have mate, as I mostly prefer the sound of vintage equipment (done well). The voicing, for me, is quite different - and I'm not talking 'pipe & slippers' either!

Marco.

[Bigman80]

Vienna (which was a German market special) and Kontrapunkt B appear to be identical - same body, same FG80 tip, same ruby cantilever, same output, same weight, same compliance, indeed in every single spec ... am I missing something?

The Coils are different and the WRD (Wide Range Damping) is fitted in the Vienna.

The suspension has a different tension too. It's a very dynamic cartridge which was a specification of the German commissioner, Thakker.

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