In praise of the Denon 103...

[Simon75]

This isn't something I'm planning to do in the immediate future, but would really value members views on: Would a denon 103r be suitable to mount on an Sme 3009 series2 (non improved)(detachable headshell)arm? I'm currently using a Shure M55E to good effect but think in the next 6 months or so I will be ready to try something different. Your thoughts would be much appreciated.

[montesquieu]

This isn't something I'm planning to do in the immediate future, but would really value members views on: Would a denon 103r be suitable to mount on an Sme 3009 series2 (non improved)(detachable headshell)arm? I'm currently using a Shure M55E to good effect but think in the next 6 months or so I will be ready to try something different. Your thoughts would be much appreciated.

The non-improved is a better match than the later arms but if it were me I'd put the money into a Jico stylus for the M55.

[Simon75]

It's got a jico stylus already, not a SAS however, I can't bring myself to pay out the required amount for one, I think they are around £200 at the moment.

[montesquieu]

It's got a jico stylus already, not a SAS however, I can't bring myself to pay out the required amount for one, I think they are around £200 at the moment.

That's the one I meant.

[Jimbo]

It's got a jico stylus already, not a SAS however, I can't bring myself to pay out the required amount for one, I think they are around £200 at the moment.

The Jico SAS transforms the M55e into something very special, nothing like the standard stylus. Nice and quiet in the groove but masses of detail retrieval. In the right arm this combination will compete with any of the top MM cartridges out there around the £500 mark. I loved mine in the Lenco GL75.

[Simon75]

I would love to try one, anyone know the going rate for a 2nd hand one?

[Jimbo]

I would love to try one, anyone know the going rate for a 2nd hand one?

Around £100

[Simon75]

Unless I am getting completely confused by their website it looks like jico are not selling any neo SAS at the moment. They do have information about them but it's from 2016. A quick google brings up a neo SAS N55e for $250 shipping from the US.

[tlscapital]

Hi Andrew,

Basically, it comes down to stuff like high, versus low/medium-mass tonearms, and low-compliance, versus medium-compliance cartridges. The former is the 'unfashionable' way of doing things, along with using direct-drive and idler turntables, as opposed to belt-driven ones, and even things like 'S' or 'J'-shaped tonearms with detachable headshells, instead of straight ones with fixed headshells.

'Unfashionable' of the 'unfashionable' I run my Denon DL-102 (even more eccentric than the DL-103) on a belt driven turntable with suspended sub chassis. So I get all the benefit like the "airy sound" and the very evolutive potential around it. To counter the Wow & Flute hazard (that are the down side of those belt turntables I totally agree) I feed the motor with an external PSU & tachometer combo for sturdy speed accuracy and constancy. I don't dream anymore to own a Garrard 301 (grease bearing). For real !

There's other stuff too (such as using an SUT or head amp, with a low-output MC cartridge, as opposed to solely a standalone MC phono stage), spherical styli versus line-contact [and the high VTFs often needed with some spherical/conical tips] - and all of this highlights the contrast in both approaches. The DL-103 requies one to adopt an 'unfashionable' approach to turntable building/vinyl listening, in order for it to perform optimally.

The Denon DL-102 has 3mV signal output, so it's considered a HOMC (the DL-13 has 0.5mV signal considered a LOMC) and thanks to my adjustable preamp, I can set it right to the cartridge requirements. A pre-set MM or MC preampfification won't make these "exotic" cartridges sing as they should. This I have experienced with mine and the "conventional" MM/MC settings ! So even though I am good now, I am contemplating the addition of a 1:2 passive SUT as this could broaden some more the "sound stage" I've read.

The Japs have been adopting said 'unfashionable' approach for years, with great success, and when I tried it for myself, I discovered what I'd been missing for a long time with vinyl replay!

Marco.

Old timer record collector with no phono geek knowledge nor money to put into my previous phono set-ups, I've been running SL-1200 and such turntables for decades before. Worry less of such consideration, my gears were merely second hand plug & play combinations. Lately in my life, with the DL-102 this has taken another turn. It did require a lot of reading and understanding of the basics before DIY tweaking and some money as well... And now my playback times are a party and ear pleasure as well.

[paulf-2007]

The Denon DL-102 has 3mV signal output, so it's considered a HOMC (the DL-13 has 0.5mV signal considered a LOMC) and thanks to my adjustable preamp, I can set it right to the cartridge requirements. A pre-set MM or MC preampfification won't make these "exotic" cartridges sing as they should. This I have experienced with mine and the "conventional" MM/MC settings ! So even though I am good now, I am contemplating the addition of a 1:2 passive SUT as this could broaden some more the "sound stage" I've read.
[/QUOTE]i just happen to have a1:2 step up I had made by klaus Hurler in Germany, he sells on eBay. I had it made to work with an SAE 1000, if necessary it could have resistors changed to match a 102