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Thread: Best isolating feet for turntable plinth?

  1. #31
    Join Date: Aug 2008

    Location: Suffolk, UK

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    I'm Paul.

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    I’m generally unconvinced by the various boutique isolation and coupling products. Some companies will supply you with something proper that has been configured for your equipment and these are good if you go down the sprung isolation route. I’m sure that for many of the fancy feet you can get the same result using a good solid set of wood or metal cones.
    ~Paul~

  2. #32
    Join Date: Apr 2012

    Location: N E Kent

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    I'm Geoff.

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    I'm suspicious of fancy, blingy feet that combine hard points and cups with soft isolating compliances. I mean, where's the flippin' benefit? It's just meaningless Hi-Fi 'jewellery' if you ask me.

  3. #33
    Join Date: Mar 2016

    Location: Barnet, london UK

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    I'm Adam.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nickbaba View Post
    Out of interest, Adam, how do you have your 401 situated? I know you have an RC cherry plinth - do you have it isolated somehow? Did you fit feet to the plinth?
    I have 8mm screwed feet (adjustable) with Sorbothane domes fixed to the bottom of them, my plinth is on a solid Sapele Box Furniture rack, which is ridiculously solid. That sits on an original wooden suspension floor and I can’t hear any vibration problems from foot traffic or anything else. Even with 30kg bulldogs trundling around ..... I tried spikes, hard coupling on the deck at first and it was bloody awful. Literally caused a bass feedback loop!
    I suppose my current setup can be improved further but as said, I get no vibration problems and it sounds great to these old ears..
    "lack of passion is fatal"


    Vinyl: Thorens TD-124mk2 / SME-312 Aluminium 'special' / SME M2-9R / STEREO: Etsuro Urushi Cobalt / Shure M3D / Ortofon SPU A95 / Cartridge Man Music Master / Shure - SC35C (US) / SAEC C3 MC MONO: Miyajima Zero B 0.7mil mono / Miyajima Premium 1.0 / Amps & SUTs: Radford STA25 mk3 / AD Audio 'Satchmo2' pre & LCR phono / Hashimoto HM-7 SUT / ETR-MONO SUT Digital: Audio Note 4.1 (with DAC5 upgrades) DAC / Roon / Tidal Speakers: Tannoy 12" MGs' in RFC custom 'Rutland' Cabinets with RFC crossovers / Tannoy ST-100 Super Tweeters Cables: LFD Grainless phono / RFC Mercury / Duelund DCA16GA tinned copper / Kimber 12TC / SW1X Audio Design USB-SPdif / Duelund DCA20GA interconnects / SW1X Audio SPDIF Aero 6 / Mains Power Conditioner / Box Furniture rack / Audiodesk Systeme Vinyl Cleaner / a very beautiful & understanding Wife!

  4. #34
    Join Date: Nov 2011

    Location: Seaton, Devon, UK

    Posts: 13,240
    I'm Adrian.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ammonite Acoustics View Post
    Actually not. There is usually a great deal of vibration passed up through the house walls from passing pedestrians, traffic, as well as from internal sources like washing machines, pumps etc. A record player is a very sensitive vibration measuring device - it would not play records if that was not the case, and it is incredibly susceptible to external vibration. A suspended deck on a wall shelf is inherently fairly immune because it has sprung suspension, so the sensitive bits ought to be well isolated. A solid deck, however massy, is most definitely not immune and some form of isolation placed between the deck and the wall shelf is therefore a good thing.

    There’s nothing foo nor fancy about this, just basic physics, and basic mass-spring theory is your saviour.
    Yep, I quite agree, I have my turntable mounted on a Audio Suspension shelf, essentially an acrylic 30mm shelf held at 2 points at the read to the wall and then suspended by 2 stainless steel cables run diagonally from the wall above down to the front corners. The whole lot sits 1m behind the speakers to try and minimise impact by air born vibration(music). I downloaded a simple Vibration measuring app to my iPhone(it uses the quite sensitive accelerometers in the phone) and placed this on the shelf and when playing music and when everything else sounds quiet there is no significant vibration detected. However if I lightly tap the wall on the other side(an internal wall) or jump on the floor then vibration is detected, and I am sure as you point out other externally induced vibrations would be detected. If I place the iPhone on the platter and do the same then what is detected is much less, so the spring suspension of the turntable is doing some damping. So isolating a turntable from external vibration is not as simple as it may seem.

    Many years ago I worked as a a lab technician at the Wolfson Sound and Vibration laboratory and conducted a variety of experiments measuring and recording vibrations and their impact. These were in the lab or out on site to determine the impact of vibrations to others in the near vicinity. What I found interesting at the time was just how far some vibrations would travel and could be measured, low frequencies can go a long way, but this is dependant the density of the land(material) it travels through.

    I also noticed someone advocating using springs in a vibration damping system, my understanding is this is not a simple matter as it may seem, this is because all springs have an inherent resonant frequency, and this can cause oscillations if provoked. Having experimented with spring set ups to dampen the front suspension on a Morgan car I know only too well how tricky this can be. For example if a spring is already preloaded how it will react to vibrations or forces exerted on it will be dependant of the load it is already under and also what is the maximum it can effectively be deflected before it becomes stiff/rigid. Shock absorbers are also used to try and dampen the initial impact on the spring and to stop it being fully compressed quickly and to also slow it returning to its steady state. Most springs are wound in such a way that they are linear in how they react, however in some applications springs are wound so that the coils are progressively tighter, in this way the spring can react in a progressive manner across a larger range, as I understand it. Anyway I am not an engineer and do not understand the applied mathematics involved, but understand the basic principles involved. I think to create a spring loaded platform to try and limit the transfer of a range of frequency vibrations from a turntable would be a challenging and taxing thing to do, but probably very interesting.
    Listening is the act of aural discrimination and dissemination of sound, and accepting you get it wrong sometimes.

    Analog Inputs: Pro-Ject Signature 10 TT & arm, Benz Micro LP-S, Michel Cusis MC, Goldring 2500 and Ortofon Rondo Blue cartridges, Hitachi FT5500 mk2 Tuner

    Digital:- Marantz SA-KI Pearl CD player, RaspberryPi/HifiBerry Digi+ Pro, Buffalo NAS Drive

    Amplification:- AudioValve Sunilda phono stage, Krell KSP-7B pre-amp, Krell KSA-80 power amp

    Output: Wilson Benesch Vector speakers, KLH Ultimate One Headphones

    Cables: Tellurium Q Ultra Black II RCA & Chord Epic 2 RCA, various speaker leads, & links


    I think I am nearing audio nirvana, but don’t tell anyone.

  5. #35
    Join Date: Mar 2016

    Location: Barnet, london UK

    Posts: 2,146
    I'm Adam.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AJSki2fly View Post
    Yep, I quite agree, I have my turntable mounted on a Audio Suspension shelf, essentially an acrylic 30mm shelf held at 2 points at the read to the wall and then suspended by 2 stainless steel cables run diagonally from the wall above down to the front corners. The whole lot sits 1m behind the speakers to try and minimise impact by air born vibration(music). I downloaded a simple Vibration measuring app to my iPhone(it uses the quite sensitive accelerometers in the phone) and placed this on the shelf and when playing music and when everything else sounds quiet there is no significant vibration detected. However if I lightly tap the wall on the other side(an internal wall) or jump on the floor then vibration is detected, and I am sure as you point out other externally induced vibrations would be detected. If I place the iPhone on the platter and do the same then what is detected is much less, so the spring suspension of the turntable is doing some damping. So isolating a turntable from external vibration is not as simple as it may seem
    I don’t think anyone suggested it was a simple thing to isolate a TT. But as with most things in this field, there has is a compromise to be had. So the wall shelf ensemble worked for you as long as someone didn’t tap on the wall behind it or indeed jump up and down on the floor.
    I agree there has to be a degree of decoupling with the TT on it’s solid base, be it shelf or rack. The sorbothane feet certainly offer a big improvement over hard coupling all the way.
    "lack of passion is fatal"


    Vinyl: Thorens TD-124mk2 / SME-312 Aluminium 'special' / SME M2-9R / STEREO: Etsuro Urushi Cobalt / Shure M3D / Ortofon SPU A95 / Cartridge Man Music Master / Shure - SC35C (US) / SAEC C3 MC MONO: Miyajima Zero B 0.7mil mono / Miyajima Premium 1.0 / Amps & SUTs: Radford STA25 mk3 / AD Audio 'Satchmo2' pre & LCR phono / Hashimoto HM-7 SUT / ETR-MONO SUT Digital: Audio Note 4.1 (with DAC5 upgrades) DAC / Roon / Tidal Speakers: Tannoy 12" MGs' in RFC custom 'Rutland' Cabinets with RFC crossovers / Tannoy ST-100 Super Tweeters Cables: LFD Grainless phono / RFC Mercury / Duelund DCA16GA tinned copper / Kimber 12TC / SW1X Audio Design USB-SPdif / Duelund DCA20GA interconnects / SW1X Audio SPDIF Aero 6 / Mains Power Conditioner / Box Furniture rack / Audiodesk Systeme Vinyl Cleaner / a very beautiful & understanding Wife!

  6. #36
    Join Date: Nov 2011

    Location: Seaton, Devon, UK

    Posts: 13,240
    I'm Adrian.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WESTLOWER View Post
    I don’t think anyone suggested it was a simple thing to isolate a TT. But as with most things in this field, there has is a compromise to be had. So the wall shelf ensemble worked for you as long as someone didn’t tap on the wall behind it or indeed jump up and down on the floor.
    I was not picking up on what anyone had said just trying to make an observation of how hard it can be to isolate something from variations or effectively damp it.

    Yes that's right, my set up seems reasonably OK, certainly not perfect and no doubt could be better. The shelf is attached to a dot and dab wall, so plasterboard stuck onto thermalite blocks, I suspect the blocks may be helping as they are effectively full of lots of little air bubble and are pretty sound dead, so may be absorbing some of the vibrations from outside. Someone did tell me that acrylic is good at being less prone to vibration induced resonance, I presume thats why a few TT designs have used it for plinths, or maybe its a cost effective material that can look good. I'm thinking of buying some pre-cut and sticking some sorbothane to it and then using as a platform on the shelf under the turntable to see the effect. I know it may have a negative effect but might be interesting and it is relatively cheap to do.
    Listening is the act of aural discrimination and dissemination of sound, and accepting you get it wrong sometimes.

    Analog Inputs: Pro-Ject Signature 10 TT & arm, Benz Micro LP-S, Michel Cusis MC, Goldring 2500 and Ortofon Rondo Blue cartridges, Hitachi FT5500 mk2 Tuner

    Digital:- Marantz SA-KI Pearl CD player, RaspberryPi/HifiBerry Digi+ Pro, Buffalo NAS Drive

    Amplification:- AudioValve Sunilda phono stage, Krell KSP-7B pre-amp, Krell KSA-80 power amp

    Output: Wilson Benesch Vector speakers, KLH Ultimate One Headphones

    Cables: Tellurium Q Ultra Black II RCA & Chord Epic 2 RCA, various speaker leads, & links


    I think I am nearing audio nirvana, but don’t tell anyone.

  7. #37
    Join Date: Mar 2016

    Location: Barnet, london UK

    Posts: 2,146
    I'm Adam.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AJSki2fly View Post
    I was not picking up on what anyone had said just trying to make an observation of how hard it can be to isolate something from variations or effectively damp it.

    Yes that's right, my set up seems reasonably OK, certainly not perfect and no doubt could be better. The shelf is attached to a dot and dab wall, so plasterboard stuck onto thermalite blocks, I suspect the blocks may be helping as they are effectively full of lots of little air bubble and are pretty sound dead, so may be absorbing some of the vibrations from outside. Someone did tell me that acrylic is good at being less prone to vibration induced resonance, I presume thats why a few TT designs have used it for plinths, or maybe its a cost effective material that can look good. I'm thinking of buying some pre-cut and sticking some sorbothane to it and then using as a platform on the shelf under the turntable to see the effect. I know it may have a negative effect but might be interesting and it is relatively cheap to do.
    I think that approach to a diy platform would bring good results for very little money.
    "lack of passion is fatal"


    Vinyl: Thorens TD-124mk2 / SME-312 Aluminium 'special' / SME M2-9R / STEREO: Etsuro Urushi Cobalt / Shure M3D / Ortofon SPU A95 / Cartridge Man Music Master / Shure - SC35C (US) / SAEC C3 MC MONO: Miyajima Zero B 0.7mil mono / Miyajima Premium 1.0 / Amps & SUTs: Radford STA25 mk3 / AD Audio 'Satchmo2' pre & LCR phono / Hashimoto HM-7 SUT / ETR-MONO SUT Digital: Audio Note 4.1 (with DAC5 upgrades) DAC / Roon / Tidal Speakers: Tannoy 12" MGs' in RFC custom 'Rutland' Cabinets with RFC crossovers / Tannoy ST-100 Super Tweeters Cables: LFD Grainless phono / RFC Mercury / Duelund DCA16GA tinned copper / Kimber 12TC / SW1X Audio Design USB-SPdif / Duelund DCA20GA interconnects / SW1X Audio SPDIF Aero 6 / Mains Power Conditioner / Box Furniture rack / Audiodesk Systeme Vinyl Cleaner / a very beautiful & understanding Wife!

  8. #38
    Join Date: Sep 2016

    Location: Brussels, Belgium

    Posts: 132
    I'm Tim.

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    If you're system is clean as clear in sound and no one can hear a breath through your speakers while the volume on your power amp is to the max and no music is playing; tap on the support of your turntable (401) and if you can hear it through your speakers, this means it's feet are not isolating it ! Your OP was about turntable feet. Now it's taken the course of the overall isolation thing...

    So on a solid one block coupled turntable where there arm rests on the same (even attached to) foundation as the platter like a 401 for example, the turntable base requires even more isolation from it's support than from a turntable with suspended chassis or sub-chassis design. Not dismissing that ideally a turntable support is to be sturdy and de-coupled from any "vibrant" transmitting structure.

    Concrete and/or solid walls are good at that just like concrete floors. But then we are far from the turntable feet issue which is a subject on it's own to be taken care of any which way if ever that is. Considering all is well calibrated in the phono set-up, such overall phono set-up inertia "heaven" will allow a much sharper sonic "image" to be seen and heard. I have seen it, now I am a believer.
    - Cart Denon DL-102 in bakelite Ortofon SPU 'G' type headshell
    - TA SME 3009 'Improved' converted in heavy mass with detachable headshell
    - TT Thorens TD160 'E' totally tweaked driven by an 'Eagle & RoadRunner' PSU & tachometer combo
    - Matts top to bottom: leather, cork, felt & 12" vinyl
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    - Speakers 12" Leak 'Sandwich' first generation creatively recapped

  9. #39
    Join Date: Sep 2012

    Location: London

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    I'm Nick.

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    As OP I think the wider isolation discussion is relevant, given that I asked about TT feet in the context of how people are isolating their non-suspended TTs.
    To be fair I hadn't thought that much about isolation (current TT is a 1210 with Isonoe feet standing on a 20mm slab of granite, seems fine) and I have learned a lot over the course of this thread, for instance that maybe isolating feet aren't sufficient, and perhaps a better way to go would be coupling feet/spikes stood on an isolating platform...
    Altho', in my setup and with my ears, the last few % of total and utter isolation is pretty much irrelevant. To be honest, if I turn my power amp all the way up, far before I get to full volume I already hear hum from my components. That's just something I've been meaning to sort out and it's to do with the fact that due to space constraints in the living room I have all my bits (SUT, TT PSU, phono stage, preamp etc) all too close to each other... but in practical terms, at normal listening levels I don't hear it so it's not at the top of my to do list... so in terms of isolation I just need enough so that my tonearm doesn't jump if I walk past it, or a bus goes by outside. I very much doubt whether I personally would reach the point of being able to hear the effect of airborne feedback in my system!

  10. #40
    Join Date: Aug 2018

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    I'm Nari.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nickbaba View Post
    I very much doubt whether I personally would reach the point of being able to hear the effect of airborne feedback in my system!
    I would be shocked if you did not, I remember in the old days remembering a certain turntable manufacturer commenting one could hear the different sizes of springs in a turntable suspension and one sure can.

    I have learnt everything makes a different I have wested a small fortune all hiden from her in doors of course learning the hard way. With a garrard and any non sprung turntable, I would take extra care as possible to get it isolated. Even My micro seiki 8000 with its air suspension, air bearing and massive platter that by most peoples standards sounds much much much better with the Minus K, Herzan and Vibraplane plaforms and even then I can hear what different types of feet add to the party the quest goes on and on. Imagine even the type of material used for a arm board makes a difference brass has its sound, as does steel or aluminium as does different woods etc and each work different with different arms everything makes a difference we might prefer one against the other thats a different story. A great deal of turntable designers choose not to suspend there turntables mainly because of cost restraints and complexity there have been extreme products like the Continuum and Rockports and Micro Seikis and a few others that have adapted industrial isolation solutions to get take it to the highest levels but at crazy prices.

    If I were buying a deck especially spending £3000 plus spending £700 on a townshend platform is a good buy considering the improvements. A friend of mine just purchased a platform for his £30000 systemdek reference and commented how big the difference is and the systemdek has an excellent suspension that really works.
    Last edited by Vrajbasi; 07-10-2018 at 23:18.
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