Suggestions for preamp upgrade

[Colin2040]

Managed to find a few more reviews, bit varied seem to be either really good or seem to be the reverse. I would like a Saga but would like it to have a phono. I thought they did an upgrade option but unfortunately not to the Saga.

[tatami]

So, my thinking is continuing to evolve thanks to ongoing online research, a visit to the Festival of Sound, an audition of Edwardlon’s amazing system, swapping in and out three different preamps, and a phonecall with Quad’s service department.

The Festival of Sound gave me an impression of just how dangerously seductive high-end hifi can be and also showed me that my hearing isn’t as finely tuned as those of real audiophiles. I went to a demonstration by Russ Andrews in which he convinced his audience that mounting an amplifier on oak feet made a significant improvement to the sound. Unfortunately, if I’m honest, I couldn’t hear the difference.

I could, on the other hand, hear the differences between the three preamps Edwardlon let me listen to. I’d describe those differences as subtle (by which I don’t mean to suggest unimportant) rather than massive. Which makes me suspect that it will be difficult to justify spending pretty much all of my current budget on the Icon LA4 Mark III.

I discovered that Quad will charge £55 labour + parts + VAT each to service of the 66 and 606. There’s a good chance that the parts themselves could be expensive – about £200 for each unit (the main items being a new circuit board for the 66 and a new power supply for the 606). The new power supply, capacitors, etc would effectively upgrade the 606 to a 909. I also asked, out of interest, about the ESL 63s. The cost of servicing a pair is £120 but if the diaphragms need replacing that would add another £1,300 to the cost (+ VAT of course).

All of the above has led me to try to identify/articulate what I’m trying to achieve by upgrading my setup. I think there are two, possibly related, things.

1. Improve the imaging of the soundstage. It struck me that Edwardlon’s system is well ahead of mine in terms of its ability to pinpoint different instruments in an orchestra. I’ve tried my speakers in various positions and although results have improved, there’s still a way to go.

2. Add a bit more bass without making the speakers more intrusive (so putting them on stands is not an option).

So here’s my thinking as of now.

1. Get Quad to service the 606. They reckon a service is well overdue (the unit is over 25 years old) and that it might help the issues I’ve identified. The downside is that they’re quoting a 21-day turnaround (gone are the days when you could book a service in advance and have it done on the day).

2. Either find a second-hand Lyngdorf DPA-1 on the basis that, judging from reviews, it’s a fine, neutral preamp and that its inbuilt RoomPerfect technology would go a long way towards addressing the two issues I’ve identified. The downside of the Lyngdorf is that I’d probably have to buy it from an overseas seller, meaning I couldn’t go and check it out myself.

Or go with the Schiit Saga (assuming I like what I hear when the unit arrives on loan) and have a go at addressing the room correction with Room EQ Wizard – https://community.roonlabs.com/t/a-g...-in-roon/23800). I could then build on that by acquiring a second-hand B&W PV1 and possibly a Dspeaker Anti-mode 8033 and possibly a Dspeaker Anti-mode 8033.

And at some stage in the future, I’d love to get a more up-to-date pair of Quad electrostatics. But that’s for the future.

Does that sound like a sensible way forward? Does anyone here have experience of the Lyngdorf DPA-1 or their RoomPerfect technology or of using Room EQ Wizard (in combination with Roon)?

[ReggieB]

Ummm. Have you considered a sub-woofer?

[tatami]

I have indeed considered a sub-woofer. That's why the B&W PV1 is there as an option!

[ReggieB]

I have considered reading .... occasionally.

[tatami]

[tatami]

So I've spent a stimulating day and a half auditioning three preamps to replace my Quad 66 in the following system:

iMac => ethernet => microRendu => USB => Chord Qutest => Quad 66 => Quad 606 => Quad ESL 63s

I also enlisted the ears of a friend.

The price differential between the three units is quite impressive:

• Tisbury Mini Passive Preamplifier II: £149
• Schiit Saga: £360
• Icon LAIII Mk 4: £1,599 (+ £50 for Perspex cover)

All three have a clarity and immediacy that the Quad 66 lacks (and might regain, at least in part, were I to have it serviced). They put a bit more space around the instruments and singers, and add a little more definition to their placement on the sound stage.

The differences between the three preamps are noticeable but subtle. I have to say that I found it really challenging to hold in my head what one unit sounds like while unplugging it from the system and plugging in an alternative.

The Icon is a real beast – it weighs a ton and looks fantastic. It sounds fantastic too, and has tremendous presence. To my ears it trades a tiny bit of immediacy for a slightly warmer sound. It's particularly convincing in those low bass passages. My friend found the treble a bit thin, I didn't. I guess that just shows how subjective this exercise is.

With the Schiit you get two preamps in one – it has a switch that toggles between passive and valve mode. What surprised me was that, if I’m honest, I struggled to hear any real difference between the two. This was, by a hair's breadth, my friend's favourite preamp. I like that it has a remote control but I'm not mad about the sound the unit emits when dialing the volume up and down.

What initially took me aback about the Tisbury is that there’s no power supply – I just didn't expect this. You don’t plug it into the mains because it doesn’t need any power. It has tremendous clarity and punch and its ability to resolve detail is remarkable. A tick, by the way, for the clear indicator on the volume control – unlike the Icon, which gives no real visual clues of how high the volume is set.

I also tried connecting the Qutest directly to the 606, ie doing without a preamp and instead using Roon’s software volume control. The sound was very similar to the Tisbury unit, though I thought the Tisbury separated out the strands where there were many different instruments and singers slightly better than the direct link (not sure why this should be the case; perhaps it was my imagination). My main reservation about doing without a preamp is the potential for blowing up my speakers by forgetting to turn down the volume control.

My conclusion is that for my ears and in my system the Tisbury passive works best. So that's what I'm going to go with, particularly given what feels like a bargain price.

In case it's of interest, these are the recordings I used to compare and contrast the preamps:

• Schubert: Death and the Maiden Quartet, Pavel Haas Quartet
• Liszt: Piano Sonata, Stephen Hough
• Debussy: String Quartet, Quatuor Ebene
• Tchaikovsky: Symphony No. 6, Teodor Currentzis
• Mozart: Don Giovanni, Teodor Currentzis
• Bach: Sonata no 3 for solo violin, Alina Ibragimova
• Bach: Suite for solo cello no 1: Jean-Guihen Queyras
• Joan Baez: Diamonds and Rust
• Miles Davis: Kind of Blue

Thanks to everyone who's contributed their thoughts and suggestions to this thread, especially Edwardlon, who had me over to listen to his three preamps. I've learned a lot and I'd be happy to continue the conversation.

Philip

[hifinutt]

thanks for write up , lots of amps have volume knobs that click when changing . mfa amongst them . doesn`t bother me in the slightest on the saga and freya so don`t let it put you off . the valve stage in both saga and freya is better than the passive in my opinion . more full sounding with wider soundstage

[ed schilling]

Hi Andy, I just checked in and noticed you are using the image of my "Official Spokes girl" Little Miss Triode. I paid for her image to be drawn. She was and is my property. I have given permission over the years for fellows to use her in their sig. (maybe even you). I usually suggest they give credit where credit is due. She's my baby...so......I'd appreciate it if you would add "by permission of Ed Schilling, Little Miss Triode".

Thanks.
Ed Schilling
www.thehornshoppe.com

[stidge]

Did you copyright Little Miss Triode?