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Thread: To screen or to not screen? Cables

  1. #1
    Join Date: Jul 2013

    Location: Kingsbury, NW London

    Posts: 1,232
    I'm Clive.

    Default To screen or to not screen? Cables

    First of all I’m not trying to start a mains cable argument but am genuinely interested trying to get to the bottom of the screen or unscreened discussion.
    I’ve in the past been of the opinion that screened mains cables was the way to go. Following a long conversation with James at Whest Audio who told me not to use a screened mains cable, not to use a filtered mains conditioner and plug directly into the wall socket with an unscreened cable.
    This peeked my interest and with a friend present we started to experiment. I used the unscreened mains cable that came with the Phono Stage and it sounded so much better than the screened cable I had been using. This led me to try some Black Rhodium Libra mains cable which is unscreened. The SQ quality improved once again with wider soundstage and smoother, deeper bass.
    As a further trial I decided to use the same cable on my Aries G1 and once again SQ improved, not as much as the phonostage but a definite improvement.
    My dilemma now is should I replace the screened cables on by BluRay player and pre-amp

    James went on to tell me that the BBC did a lot of tests in the seventies with mains cables and could find no gain in using screened ones and in fact found screened to be detrimental. Something about the electron flow being bounced back by the screen and thus producing distortion.

    I don’t pretend to know or understand the science and can only judge what my ears hear. If you can’t hear any differences with mains cables, that’s all well and good, I’m not trying to argue with you. I’m just interested in this bit about screening, Does this affect all cables?
    SOURCE:OPPO UDP-205 BluRay, SkyQ, Technics SL1210M5G/HexMat Eclipse/MN Bearing/Origin Live Gravity One puck/Isonoes with Boots/Jelco TK-850S Tonearm/Hana Umami Blue, PS Audio Stellar Phonostage. I also have an AT-OC9XSH as a spare cartridge.
    AMPLIFIER: Bryston BR-20 Pre/DAC/Streamer & Bryston 4B3 Power Amplifier
    SPEAKERS: Spendor D7 on Iso-Acoustics Gaia III’s
    HEADPHONES: OPPO PM-1 with Atlas Zeno cable, B&W Pi7 S2 and B&W C5 v2.
    CABLES: Analogue: Speaker Atlas Mavros Grun. Interconnect - Atlas Mavros XLR x3, MCRU Silver Tonearm cable
    Digital:Audioquest Carbon Ethernet x 4, Audioquest Carbon digital, English Electric 8Switch, Chord Optichord, Atlas Optical.
    Mains: PS Audio Perfectwave AC-05 x 5, Isol-8 Powerline Extreme with Quantum Science yellow fuse on input cable, Sounds Fantastic 6way Mains Blocks.
    STORAGE: Synology DS216J NAS with 2 x 3Tb WD Red hard-drives. Samsung 500Gb SSD.
    TV LG55B7 OLED

  2. #2
    Join Date: Apr 2012

    Location: London

    Posts: 685
    I'm James.

    Default

    I am not a believer in mains cable effects, so don't be surprised that I cannot imagine any possible reason why they should make a difference, beyond simple wish fulfilment.

    Nor I am not so blinkered that I don't accept new findings...

    Sent from my BLA-L09 using Tapatalk

  3. #3
    Join Date: Feb 2013

    Location: W Lothian

    Posts: 99,005
    I'm Grant.

    Default

    Good post Clive and interesting read.
    I'm not in the mains cable brigade but I do see that plenty folk do find it important.
    Regards,
    Grant .... ؠ ......Don't be such a big girl's blouse

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  4. #4
    Join Date: Apr 2012

    Location: London

    Posts: 685
    I'm James.

    Default

    If this effect is real then it rather makes me wonder if all the screened interconnects and signal wires, let alone TV aerial wires and screened RF equipment is similarly sub-optimal?

    Maybe Nordost are on to something after all?

    I realise this is thread drift but what are your feelings about interconnect sonics and have you tried unscreened variants there? I have a couple of pairs, no objection to how they may sound at all, but difficult to eliminate hum without careful placement.

    Sent from my BLA-L09 using Tapatalk

  5. #5
    Join Date: Dec 2015

    Location: Cardiff Wales

    Posts: 32
    I'm winston.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jazid View Post
    If this effect is real then it rather makes me wonder if all the screened interconnects and signal wires, let alone TV aerial wires and screened RF equipment is similarly sub-optimal?

    Maybe Nordost are on to something after all?

    I realise this is thread drift but what are your feelings about interconnect sonics and have you tried unscreened variants there? I have a couple of pairs, no objection to how they may sound at all, but difficult to eliminate hum without careful placement.

    Sent from my BLA-L09 using Tapatalk
    My (limited) understanding is that signal wires are screened because the signals carried are small and therefore more susceptible to noise hence the screening. This leads into another recent discussion on directional cable and again my understanding is the explanation for directional cable is that the screen is only connected at one end therefore any noise caught by the screen is directed to the component (and earthed) at the end of the interconnect that the screen is connected to only.

  6. #6
    Join Date: May 2016

    Location: Much Wenlock

    Posts: 1,522
    I'm Gary.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by winstonmalcolm View Post
    My (limited) understanding is that signal wires are screened because the signals carried are small and therefore more susceptible to noise hence the screening. This leads into another recent discussion on directional cable and again my understanding is the explanation for directional cable is that the screen is only connected at one end therefore any noise caught by the screen is directed to the component (and earthed) at the end of the interconnect that the screen is connected to only.
    These are my observations on my system, different systems may react differently.

    I have tried interconnects configured :-

    Screen connected at both ends.
    Screen connected at source end.
    Screen connected at receive end
    Screen not connected at all.

    All with the cable conductors in line with lettering, assuming that this is the direction of conductor extrusion.

    The cable with the screen connected at source end was better in only one case, the turntable, this negated hum, noise, in fact any interference.

    CD transport to DAC, DAC to amplifier no screen connected, sounded superior.

    I tried screened mains cable, it sounded worse in every case, most noticeable on DAC.

    Make of this what you will.

    Gary
    It is easier to seek forgiveness than to ask permission

    Rules are meant for the obedience of fools and the guidance of wise men

  7. #7
    Bigman80 Guest

    Default

    This really is cable dependant.

    I've had a large number of cables through here and I can tell you, different cables react differently to the norm.

    As a rule of thumb, if a Turntable is involved, I always attach the screen at source end only.

    If not, then the screen isn't really necessary IMO however I have noticed differences when it hasn't been connected to an identical cable that has one end connected.

    I do also recall making a pair of Klotz5000 cables with the screen attached which I thought were a bit veiled. I removed the screen and felt it was better but others have reported a different account.

    Sent from my VKY-L09 using Tapatalk

  8. #8
    Join Date: Dec 2015

    Location: Cardiff Wales

    Posts: 32
    I'm winston.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Stryder5 View Post
    These are my observations on my system, different systems may react differently.

    I have tried interconnects configured :-

    Screen connected at both ends.
    Screen connected at source end.
    Screen connected at receive end
    Screen not connected at all.

    All with the cable conductors in line with lettering, assuming that this is the direction of conductor extrusion.

    The cable with the screen connected at source end was better in only one case, the turntable, this negated hum, noise, in fact any interference.

    CD transport to DAC, DAC to amplifier no screen connected, sounded superior.

    I tried screened mains cable, it sounded worse in every case, most noticeable on DAC.

    Make of this what you will.

    Gary

    I don't doubt what you say at all, I'm sure the presents of a screen can have a detrimental effect on sound.

  9. #9
    Join Date: Jul 2013

    Location: Kingsbury, NW London

    Posts: 1,232
    I'm Clive.

    Default

    Well, I’ve been thinking (I know dangerous). I started this thread really about screening on mains cables, but thinking about it, how many manufacturers put in a screened mains cable in the 1st place. Answer to my knowledge NONE. If manufacturers of expensive kit thought it was important, surely they would put a screened cable in the box in the 1st instance. All the kit that I have and previously purchased have come with a bog standard unscreened mains lead. So who thought it would be a good idea to sell us a screened mains lead and tell us it’s a must have and the best thing since sliced bread.
    SOURCE:OPPO UDP-205 BluRay, SkyQ, Technics SL1210M5G/HexMat Eclipse/MN Bearing/Origin Live Gravity One puck/Isonoes with Boots/Jelco TK-850S Tonearm/Hana Umami Blue, PS Audio Stellar Phonostage. I also have an AT-OC9XSH as a spare cartridge.
    AMPLIFIER: Bryston BR-20 Pre/DAC/Streamer & Bryston 4B3 Power Amplifier
    SPEAKERS: Spendor D7 on Iso-Acoustics Gaia III’s
    HEADPHONES: OPPO PM-1 with Atlas Zeno cable, B&W Pi7 S2 and B&W C5 v2.
    CABLES: Analogue: Speaker Atlas Mavros Grun. Interconnect - Atlas Mavros XLR x3, MCRU Silver Tonearm cable
    Digital:Audioquest Carbon Ethernet x 4, Audioquest Carbon digital, English Electric 8Switch, Chord Optichord, Atlas Optical.
    Mains: PS Audio Perfectwave AC-05 x 5, Isol-8 Powerline Extreme with Quantum Science yellow fuse on input cable, Sounds Fantastic 6way Mains Blocks.
    STORAGE: Synology DS216J NAS with 2 x 3Tb WD Red hard-drives. Samsung 500Gb SSD.
    TV LG55B7 OLED

  10. #10
    Bigman80 Guest

    Default

    Would they though? That's the thing about manufacturers, they don't usually go the extra mile.

    A lot of this is down to your mains quality. I suspect if you have an excellent mains conditioning unit, there will be little to no reason for fancy mains cables.
    Quote Originally Posted by Clive197 View Post
    Well, I’ve been thinking (I know dangerous). I started this thread really about screening on mains cables, but thinking about it, how many manufacturers put in a screened mains cable in the 1st place. Answer to my knowledge NONE. If manufacturers of expensive kit thought it was important, surely they would put a screened cable in the box in the 1st instance. All the kit that I have and previously purchased have come with a bog standard unscreened mains lead. So who thought it would be a good idea to sell us a screened mains lead and tell us it’s a must have and the best thing since sliced bread.
    Sent from my VKY-L09 using Tapatalk

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