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Thread: AC Michell Orbe wow & flutter

  1. #11
    Join Date: Sep 2018

    Location: Ipswich, UK

    Posts: 14
    I'm Paul.

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    Sorry, running out of ideas.

  2. #12
    Join Date: Mar 2018

    Location: Surrey, just outside the M25

    Posts: 25
    I'm Alun.

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    Perhaps it is the case that tge newer belts are a problem with the older motors. I need to try and obtain some more older belts to try out.

  3. #13
    Join Date: Mar 2018

    Location: Surrey, just outside the M25

    Posts: 25
    I'm Alun.

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    I have just given the old belt a really good clean and this has produced a marked improvement in W&F readings. It looks as if it’s definitely all about the belts. What a shame the new belts aren’t suited to the older decks.

  4. #14
    Join Date: Jan 2009

    Location: London, Canada

    Posts: 189
    I'm Blake.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Harrybob View Post
    Thanks for the info, thats very interesting. Perhaps my motor is ok after all. Were any of the after market belts better performers than the Michell ones ?
    I've used the Malvern Hills belts from Ebay and also some that I sourced from Germany (they are slightly different than the Malvern Hills-definitely not the same and I don't see them listed on Ebay now). I haven't done what I would consider really accurate measurements but the Michell owner I corresponded with in the UK tried the German belt on my recommendation and found that it did not perform/measure as well as the older Michell belts he had on hand.

    To be fair, he did get back to me and say that the newer Michell belt did seem to work well enough on his DC motor after he let it run in substantially; interestingly it did not fare well out of the box.

    Sonically, I still prefer the original Michell belts to any of the newer non-OEM belts and the new Michell belts with my AC motor.

    If you find a source for any of the original belts, please let me know. I would definitely purchase a few.

    How did you clean the older belts?

  5. #15
    Join Date: May 2008

    Location: A Strangely Isolated Place in Suffolk with Far Away Trains Passing By...

    Posts: 14,535
    I'm David.

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    The one good thing hopefully, is that Michell have a decades-long reputation for good customer care, so hopefully they'll sort it. For a few years very early on, the Gyro began using twin belts to fix a pronounced wow problem as reported in the early to mid 80's HiFi Choice review books, although by the time I came by them again in the later 90's, they'd gone back to a single one. Some people are more susceptible to the wow on many belt driven decks too, but in my case, it took digital and the best idler models to show it to these ears.

    Good luck. Maybe there are other turntables that use a similar length band or cord that might work? I take it that running the deck for a few hours to spread any elastic loading around the belt doesn't help this issue?
    Tear down these walls; Cut the ties that held me
    Crying out at the top of my voice; Tell me now if you can hear me

  6. #16
    Join Date: Mar 2018

    Location: Surrey, just outside the M25

    Posts: 25
    I'm Alun.

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    Quote Originally Posted by blake View Post
    I've used the Malvern Hills belts from Ebay and also some that I sourced from Germany (they are slightly different than the Malvern Hills-definitely not the same and I don't see them listed on Ebay now). I haven't done what I would consider really accurate measurements but the Michell owner I corresponded with in the UK tried the German belt on my recommendation and found that it did not perform/measure as well as the older Michell belts he had on hand.

    To be fair, he did get back to me and say that the newer Michell belt did seem to work well enough on his DC motor after he let it run in substantially; interestingly it did not fare well out of the box.

    Sonically, I still prefer the original Michell belts to any of the newer non-OEM belts and the new Michell belts with my AC motor.

    If you find a source for any of the original belts, please let me know. I would definitely purchase a few.

    How did you clean the older belts?
    Hi, just used isopropyl alcohol.

  7. #17
    Join Date: Mar 2018

    Location: Surrey, just outside the M25

    Posts: 25
    I'm Alun.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DSJR View Post
    The one good thing hopefully, is that Michell have a decades-long reputation for good customer care, so hopefully they'll sort it. For a few years very early on, the Gyro began using twin belts to fix a pronounced wow problem as reported in the early to mid 80's HiFi Choice review books, although by the time I came by them again in the later 90's, they'd gone back to a single one. Some people are more susceptible to the wow on many belt driven decks too, but in my case, it took digital and the best idler models to show it to these ears.

    Good luck. Maybe there are other turntables that use a similar length band or cord that might work? I take it that running the deck for a few hours to spread any elastic loading around the belt doesn't help this issue?
    Hi there, yes i have tried running the new belts in over extended periods and whilst i have seen improvements it wasn’t nearly enough to make the belt useable. Has anyone spoken to Michell lately about this issue ?
    Last edited by Harrybob; 23-09-2018 at 14:27.

  8. #18
    Join Date: Jan 2009

    Location: London, Canada

    Posts: 189
    I'm Blake.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Harrybob View Post
    Hi there, yes i have tried running the new belts in over extended periods and whilst i have seen improvements it wasn’t nearly enough to make the belt useable. Has anyone spoken to Michell lately about this issue ?
    Michell has been working on this problem for about 2 years now and it is, quite frankly a serious one as far as I'm concerned.

    I haven't spoken with Michell directly as I'm in North America but I did have email correspondence with the North American distributor in the past few months and they acknowledged the new belts are not the same quality as the older/originals. All you have to do is listen to them (at least with the original AC motor) and it is painfully obvious. There must be more difficulty in sourcing than I can understand but I would like to think that Michell would make it a bit of a priority.

  9. #19
    Join Date: Mar 2018

    Location: Surrey, just outside the M25

    Posts: 25
    I'm Alun.

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    Quote Originally Posted by blake View Post
    Michell has been working on this problem for about 2 years now and it is, quite frankly a serious one as far as I'm concerned.

    I haven't spoken with Michell directly as I'm in North America but I did have email correspondence with the North American distributor in the past few months and they acknowledged the new belts are not the same quality as the older/originals. All you have to do is listen to them (at least with the original AC motor) and it is painfully obvious. There must be more difficulty in sourcing than I can understand but I would like to think that Michell would make it a bit of a priority.
    Lets hope so, its an expensive upgrade to get a DC Orbe motor and controller

  10. #20
    Join Date: Jul 2014

    Location: Ukraine

    Posts: 60
    I'm Andrew.

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    Hi!
    My Orbe with old AC motor and new belt shows ~0.13% Wow & Flutter on AnalogMagik All-In-One.
    AnalogMagik's manual says: "A good setup should display a Wow & Flutter reading of below 0.2%. A very good setup should be below 0.1%."
    Regards, Andrew.
    Michell Orbe with Moerch DP-6 Gold Precision > Shure Ultra 500 / London Jubilee / Miyajima Kansui > Croft RIAA R / Miyajima ETR-800P / Audion The Converter DAC > Audion Premier 2.0 > Audion Golden Night 300B/PX25 & Audio Black Shadow 845 > Audio Nirvana 15" Classic Alnico with Tannoy ST200.

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