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Thread: To be Passive or to Not be Passive that is the Question?

  1. #1
    Join Date: Nov 2011

    Location: Seaton, Devon, UK

    Posts: 13,214
    I'm Adrian.

    Default To be Passive or to Not be Passive that is the Question?

    So my set up at present has a Tisbury passive pre-amp which I originally purchased when setting up my system with a Project Xperience 2 deck, and Meridian 508 CD player and using a Meridian 557 power amp. At the time it was a cost effective solution, and in my mind I thought that at a later stage I would possibly replace the Tisbury with a powered pre-amp. Since then I have upgraded to the Renaissance RA01 tube mono-blocks and invested in the Gyrodec, SME arm and LFD Phono. I left the Tisbury in place as once again it seemed the most neutral part of the chain.

    However in recent weeks I have been given the opportunity to test at home a powered pre-amp, and I was hoping this might be an improvement but after several listens with 10 carefully selected tracks I found i did not like the result, and in fact thought it was a step backwards. I have been told that there are benefits of a powered pre-amp over passive one and visa versa. I would be interested in others views and any advise on this subject would be great?

    Thanks

    Adrian
    Listening is the act of aural discrimination and dissemination of sound, and accepting you get it wrong sometimes.

    Analog Inputs: Pro-Ject Signature 10 TT & arm, Benz Micro LP-S, Michel Cusis MC, Goldring 2500 and Ortofon Rondo Blue cartridges, Hitachi FT5500 mk2 Tuner

    Digital:- Marantz SA-KI Pearl CD player, RaspberryPi/HifiBerry Digi+ Pro, Buffalo NAS Drive

    Amplification:- AudioValve Sunilda phono stage, Krell KSP-7B pre-amp, Krell KSA-80 power amp

    Output: Wilson Benesch Vector speakers, KLH Ultimate One Headphones

    Cables: Tellurium Q Ultra Black II RCA & Chord Epic 2 RCA, various speaker leads, & links


    I think I am nearing audio nirvana, but don’t tell anyone.

  2. #2
    Bigman80 Guest

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    Hi Adrian,

    Passive vs active debates are as old as god's dog. It's been done to death.

    The condensed version,

    Passive: Simple, No gain, no fuss design. Less is more type approach. Can have flappy bass and lack drive. Longer runs of interconnects are undesirable usually and depending on the method/Quality of attenuation it can lose as much detail as a crap active

    Active: More components, more is more type of approach. Gain for lower output phonostages that need it. More drive to the sound usually. Longer cable runs are less of an issue. Sometimes less transparent than passives but not always the case. Attenuation is equally important but usually the Stepped attenuator or wiper type.

    Unity gain preamp: Same as an active, just no gain.

    All preamps sound different. Its very difficult to find the right one for your taste too. I use a Unity Gain pre and I prefer it to all I've tried.

    Sent from my VKY-L09 using Tapatalk

  3. #3
    Bigman80 Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by RothwellAudio View Post
    I would echo what Bigman has said with the exception of:

    Flappy bass? That's a new criticism to me. "Lacking drive" seems to be the most common criticism amongst passives' detractors.

    Active preamps with unity gain are just active preamps. The "unity gain" bit is irrelevant.
    Passive preamps are also (or can be) unity gain.
    I couldn't think of the word for The bass bass is tighter in an active pre. That's what I was going for.

    Sent from my VKY-L09 using Tapatalk

  4. #4
    Join Date: Sep 2016

    Location: Brussels, Belgium

    Posts: 132
    I'm Tim.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bigman80 View Post
    I couldn't think of the word for The bass bass is tighter in an active pre. That's what I was going for.

    Sent from my VKY-L09 using Tapatalk
    The opposite to tighter (bass) could flappy which suits better than a generic loose (bass) ?! You're all good there.
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  5. #5
    Bigman80 Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by tlscapital View Post
    The opposite to tighter (bass) could flappy which suits better than a generic loose (bass) ?! You're all good there.
    Thanks mate. Good to know!!

    Sent from my VKY-L09 using Tapatalk

  6. #6
    Join Date: Nov 2011

    Location: Seaton, Devon, UK

    Posts: 13,214
    I'm Adrian.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bigman80 View Post
    Hi Adrian,

    Passive vs active debates are as old as god's dog. It's been done to death.

    The condensed version,

    Passive: Simple, No gain, no fuss design. Less is more type approach. Can have flappy bass and lack drive. Longer runs of interconnects are undesirable usually and depending on the method/Quality of attenuation it can lose as much detail as a crap active

    Active: More components, more is more type of approach. Gain for lower output phonostages that need it. More drive to the sound usually. Longer cable runs are less of an issue. Sometimes less transparent than passives but not always the case. Attenuation is equally important but usually the Stepped attenuator or wiper type.

    Unity gain preamp: Same as an active, just no gain.

    All preamps sound different. Its very difficult to find the right one for your taste too. I use a Unity Gain pre and I prefer it to all I've tried.

    Sent from my VKY-L09 using Tapatalk
    Mmmm? Thanks for the answer Oliver, and thanks to Andrew as well.

    Yes it is pretty much as I thought, sounds like I need to continue auditioning until I find an active pre-amp that fits in with my system and at least is as good or improves to overall sound as I hear it. It is all quite difficult really as a lot of the end result is affected by the room and its influence of everything. This is also slightly concerning as after a lot of investment into getting a system that I like the sound of I know that in about 5 years we will be down sizing and then I will have the issue of how it reproduces in the new abode.
    Listening is the act of aural discrimination and dissemination of sound, and accepting you get it wrong sometimes.

    Analog Inputs: Pro-Ject Signature 10 TT & arm, Benz Micro LP-S, Michel Cusis MC, Goldring 2500 and Ortofon Rondo Blue cartridges, Hitachi FT5500 mk2 Tuner

    Digital:- Marantz SA-KI Pearl CD player, RaspberryPi/HifiBerry Digi+ Pro, Buffalo NAS Drive

    Amplification:- AudioValve Sunilda phono stage, Krell KSP-7B pre-amp, Krell KSA-80 power amp

    Output: Wilson Benesch Vector speakers, KLH Ultimate One Headphones

    Cables: Tellurium Q Ultra Black II RCA & Chord Epic 2 RCA, various speaker leads, & links


    I think I am nearing audio nirvana, but don’t tell anyone.

  7. #7
    Bigman80 Guest

    Default

    Every change will make a difference and that's why we can only talk of our own experience. There is no one size fits all in this game.

    Try as much as you can and see where you end up.

    Good luck.
    Quote Originally Posted by AJSki2fly View Post
    Mmmm? Thanks for the answer Oliver, and thanks to Andrew as well.

    Yes it is pretty much as I thought, sounds like I need to continue auditioning until I find an active pre-amp that fits in with my system and at least is as good or improves to overall sound as I hear it. It is all quite difficult really as a lot of the end result is affected by the room and its influence of everything. This is also slightly concerning as after a lot of investment into getting a system that I like the sound of I know that in about 5 years we will be down sizing and then I will have the issue of how it reproduces in the new abode.
    Sent from my VKY-L09 using Tapatalk

  8. #8
    Join Date: Apr 2008

    Location: Warrington

    Posts: 3,451
    I'm Neil.

    Default

    Some amps have buffer stages built in, which turn the incoming input impedance, potentially high, into a constant low impedance one into the next amplifier stage. In essence, the 'active preamp or buffer circuitry' is built into the amp already, all you need to do is have another box to control source selection and volume.

    Some amps do not have buffer stages built in, which makes them more sensitive to higher and varying source / passive pre output impedance. In this case, you can either add a buffer stage (no gain), or an active pre (with gain).

    I bet the Meridian is buffered on its inputs.
    Mana Acoustics Racks / Bright Star IsoNodes Decoupling >> Allo DigiOne Player >> Pedja Rogic's Audial Model S DAC + Pioneer PL-71 turntable / Vista Audio phono-1 mk II / Denon PCL-5 headshell / Reson Reca >> LFD DLS >> LFD PA2M (SE) >> Royd RR3s.

  9. #9
    Join Date: Jun 2014

    Location: Chorley Lancs

    Posts: 14,515
    I'm Steve.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by AJSki2fly View Post
    Mmmm? Thanks for the answer Oliver, and thanks to Andrew as well.

    Yes it is pretty much as I thought, sounds like I need to continue auditioning until I find an active pre-amp that fits in with my system and at least is as good or improves to overall sound as I hear it. It is all quite difficult really as a lot of the end result is affected by the room and its influence of everything. This is also slightly concerning as after a lot of investment into getting a system that I like the sound of I know that in about 5 years we will be down sizing and then I will have the issue of how it reproduces in the new abode.
    Hi Adrian,

    Don't be worrying about 5 years from now - right now is where you live!

    If you get where you like the sound, a change of abode should only require a few tweaks perhaps, at worst a change of speakers.
    I just dropped in, to see what condition my condition was in

    T/T: Inspire Monarch, X200 tonearm, Ortofon Quintet Blue. Phono: Project Tube Box CD: Marantz CD6006 (UK Edition); Amp: Musical Fidelity A5 Integrated.
    Speakers: Zu Omen Def, REL T9i subwoofer. Cables: Atlas Equator interconnects, Atlas Hyper 3.0 speaker cables

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    Echo Dot, Amptastic Mini One,Arcam A75 integrated, Celestion 5's, BK XLS-200 DF

    A/V:
    LG 55" OLED, Panasonic Blu Ray, Sony a/v amp, MA Radius speakers, REL Storm sub

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  10. #10
    Join Date: Aug 2009

    Location: Staffordshire, England

    Posts: 37,737
    I'm Martin.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pigmy Pony View Post
    Hi Adrian,

    Don't be worrying about 5 years from now - right now is where you live!

    If you get where you like the sound, a change of abode should only require a few tweaks perhaps, at worst a change of speakers.
    I agree, people make far too much of this room business. Boomy speakers aside a good system will sound good wherever you plonk it down. You can make it better with a good room and careful positioning but it won't go from sounding pleasant to sounding awful just because the room changes size and shape a bit.


    Plus getting a smaller house doesn't automatically mean a smaller listening room. I'm in a 2 bed terrace but my room is 12' x 29' x 9.5'
    Current Lash Up:

    TEAC VRDS 701T > Sony TAE1000ESD > Krell KSA50S > JM Labs Focal Electra 926.

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