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Thread: Garrard plinth: Shindo vs Artisan Fidelity

  1. #11
    Join Date: Nov 2010

    Location: Yorkshire

    Posts: 9,302
    I'm Andrew.

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    Nick,

    Hi, I added the links just to give you some idea of the products that have been produced. You could also try this https://www.classichifi-shop.co.uk/p...0-mm-oversize/ I would suggest you take these products with a pinch of salt You could possibly get the same effects with a bog standard platter installed and then going down the option of a phoenix engineering PSU and tachometer. There's a lot of B$h!t kicking around in the net.

    Regards

    A
    SS
    CD Teac VRDS25X(Audiotuned) DECK 1210 Mat Crystal Audio Mods MN Base/Bearing/Platter+Ebony armboard Feet Isonoe PSU Paul Hynes SR7EHD-27XL/DCSXL Ag DC lead/3 Stage Regs/Recap PCB+No Pitch/Strobe/Light ARM SME V(Kondo Ag Rewire&Tags) MC Cadenza Black FGS CABLES Arm Yannis SPD-4 IC Yannis 222 Litz+Ag bullets Power WAR PRE ATC SCA2 SPEAKERS ATC 50ASL STANDS Atacama PHONO Sugden Masterclass PA4 SUT Ortofon ST80SE POWER PSAudio P10

    VALVE
    PRE
    Croft Epoch(Modded) AMP Sondex S100 (Modded) SPEAKERS Tannoy 15"MG+RFC Warwick cabs+ Ref XO + Batpure supertweeters DECK Garrard 301 Mat Teunto Bearings 401(Bastin) Plinth Bamboo Arms 3009/3012 PSU Eagle+Tachometer MC Ag Meister II/FGS + Ortofon SPU MONO CABLES Arm Yannis 420.5 Litz+ SpeakerPC Tripple C+WBT-0681 Ag IC Oyaide FTVS-510 AgWBT 0110Ag Phonostages Paradise(4 Box Mega-Modded) / Croft Musicmaker



  2. #12
    Join Date: Nov 2008

    Location: belgrade serbia

    Posts: 840
    I'm gordan.

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    Ah, this idler thing didn't look that much like a rocket science back in the days...
    Gordan.
    Speakers: Oris Swing MkII
    Amps: Thomas Mayer 300b/ Hiraga La Maison de L'Audiophile 20
    Preamp: Silver AVC by eng. Ferenc Lazar
    Phono Preamp: Shishido LCR by Solaja Audio
    Decks: Garrard 301 Martin Bastin reworked/plinthed with Fidelity Research FR64fx
    Garrard 401 in eng Ferenc Lazar solid wenge plinth with SME 3012/2
    Cartridges: SPU Spirit/ Koetsu Black revisited by eng. Salai/ Miyajima Shilabe
    Step Up Transformers: Tango MCT 999/ Ortofon T-5000/ Lumiere SUT
    Digital: Shigaclone by eng. Ferenc Lazar with Lampizator Amber II
    Wires: of sufficient length

  3. #13
    Join Date: Sep 2012

    Location: London

    Posts: 434
    I'm Nick.

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    yeah, a lot of aftermarket bizniz around the Garrard decks. Thanks for the links. I will do some more research.

  4. #14
    Join Date: Mar 2016

    Location: Barnet, london UK

    Posts: 2,146
    I'm Adam.

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    Well as I said I can’t compare but my 401 was nicely fettled to run as silent as can, installed in the heavy Russ Collinson
    Plinth and it produces very sweet music indeed. If my TT rumbles I for one cant hear it! I think one can drive themselves bonkers trying to get to the ‘ultimate’ ... I personally think it’s a very musical sounding front end with everything I want from it. All that rumble talk! Na! Not having it.
    Come and listen Nick.
    "lack of passion is fatal"


    Vinyl: Thorens TD-124mk2 / SME-312 Aluminium 'special' / SME M2-9R / STEREO: Etsuro Urushi Cobalt / Shure M3D / Ortofon SPU A95 / Cartridge Man Music Master / Shure - SC35C (US) / SAEC C3 MC MONO: Miyajima Zero B 0.7mil mono / Miyajima Premium 1.0 / Amps & SUTs: Radford STA25 mk3 / AD Audio 'Satchmo2' pre & LCR phono / Hashimoto HM-7 SUT / ETR-MONO SUT Digital: Audio Note 4.1 (with DAC5 upgrades) DAC / Roon / Tidal Speakers: Tannoy 12" MGs' in RFC custom 'Rutland' Cabinets with RFC crossovers / Tannoy ST-100 Super Tweeters Cables: LFD Grainless phono / RFC Mercury / Duelund DCA16GA tinned copper / Kimber 12TC / SW1X Audio Design USB-SPdif / Duelund DCA20GA interconnects / SW1X Audio SPDIF Aero 6 / Mains Power Conditioner / Box Furniture rack / Audiodesk Systeme Vinyl Cleaner / a very beautiful & understanding Wife!

  5. #15
    Join Date: Mar 2016

    Location: New Forest

    Posts: 100
    I'm Clive.

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    Quote Originally Posted by REXTON View Post
    Martin Bastin is still pottering around. To get "SHINDO" you have to go the "whole hog", you'll need the bearing, platter, and tonearm mount and plinth and this will set up back quite a large way into 5 figures. You can buy into this idea for considerably less at https://www.peakhifi.co.uk/ which is basically SHINDO on a budget, marry this with a Russ Collinson solid Cherry plinth and you've probably got 90%+ shindo at about 10% the price. You do the math! Bob Cushworth plinth are based around cat litter (I honestly kid you not)!!!!! You'll probably want to check out Jean Nantais and his ideas on plinth design. If I were you I'd look into the concepts of coupling, decoupling, damping and vibration transmission. You can save a shed load of money and hairline by doing a little research in these areas.
    I completely agree, like all high-end hi-fi, the law of diminishing returns means you can get 80-90% of the performance for 10-20% of the cost.
    Just to clarify, I was only comparing the performance of the plinth, not the whole TT system. My RC plinth had a cut out to accommodate the oversize Shindo bearing, so was able to mount the Shindo 301 in it with its upgraded platter and bearing for direct comparisons.
    You can read all about what really goes into Bob Cusworth's 301 plinths over on the Wam, he kept a prolific blog going when he was developing the design.

  6. #16
    Join Date: Nov 2008

    Location: North Down /Northern Ireland/ UK

    Posts: 19,484
    I'm Neil.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CliveG View Post
    I completely agree, like all high-end hi-fi, the law of diminishing returns means you can get 80-90% of the performance for 10-20% of the cost.
    Just to clarify, I was only comparing the performance of the plinth, not the whole TT system. My RC plinth had a cut out to accommodate the oversize Shindo bearing, so was able to mount the Shindo 301 in it with its upgraded platter and bearing for direct comparisons.
    You can read all about what really goes into Bob Cusworth's 301 plinths over on the Wam, he kept a prolific blog going when he was developing the design.
    Nearly £5000 for a plinth is beyond justification in my opinion. How does it cost so much to make, to end up at a retail price of that.
    Regards Neil

  7. #17
    Join Date: Mar 2016

    Location: Barnet, london UK

    Posts: 2,146
    I'm Adam.

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    I'm now intrigued by the Rumble element thrown into the other hifi worry soup in my life.

    I've yet to go looking for Rumble, as I simply cam't hear it in my 401 set up (Heavy layered plinth, Heavy Gun Metal platter mat, Sorbothane based feet system)
    although I've just been reading about the Match Box method of testing for Rumble..
    Not to confuse Rumble vibration from the Motor into the plinth with audible noise from the Motor (of which I have None!)

    Match Box method
    In order to check how much “noise” is getting from the motor to the deck chassis/plinth (and subsequently to the stylus):-

    1)Take a matchbox (ideally with a few matches in it) and place it on the chassis (NOT on the platter!) next to the platter and within “reach” of the cartridge.
    2)Turn the volume control of the amp to minimum. Gently lower the stylus onto the matchbox.
    3)Carefully switch the deck on. Slowly increase the volume control. The matchbox acts like a sounding board and amplifies any sound emanating from the deck.


    I'll check this method out sometime...
    As I said, I haven't noticed anything in the background of the music in quiet passages at higher volume.

    BUT, is more fuss made of this rumble issue than really exists??
    "lack of passion is fatal"


    Vinyl: Thorens TD-124mk2 / SME-312 Aluminium 'special' / SME M2-9R / STEREO: Etsuro Urushi Cobalt / Shure M3D / Ortofon SPU A95 / Cartridge Man Music Master / Shure - SC35C (US) / SAEC C3 MC MONO: Miyajima Zero B 0.7mil mono / Miyajima Premium 1.0 / Amps & SUTs: Radford STA25 mk3 / AD Audio 'Satchmo2' pre & LCR phono / Hashimoto HM-7 SUT / ETR-MONO SUT Digital: Audio Note 4.1 (with DAC5 upgrades) DAC / Roon / Tidal Speakers: Tannoy 12" MGs' in RFC custom 'Rutland' Cabinets with RFC crossovers / Tannoy ST-100 Super Tweeters Cables: LFD Grainless phono / RFC Mercury / Duelund DCA16GA tinned copper / Kimber 12TC / SW1X Audio Design USB-SPdif / Duelund DCA20GA interconnects / SW1X Audio SPDIF Aero 6 / Mains Power Conditioner / Box Furniture rack / Audiodesk Systeme Vinyl Cleaner / a very beautiful & understanding Wife!

  8. #18
    Join Date: Nov 2008

    Location: North Down /Northern Ireland/ UK

    Posts: 19,484
    I'm Neil.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WESTLOWER View Post
    I'm now intrigued by the Rumble element thrown into the other hifi worry soup in my life.

    I've yet to go looking for Rumble, as I simply cam't hear it in my 401 set up (Heavy layered plinth, Sorbothane based feet system)
    although I've just been reading about the Match Box method of testing for Rumble..
    Not to confuse Rumble vibration from the Motor into the plinth with audible noise from the Motor (of which I have None!)

    Match Box method
    In order to check how much “noise” is getting from the motor to the deck chassis/plinth (and subsequently to the stylus):-

    1)Take a matchbox (ideally with a few matches in it) and place it on the chassis (NOT on the platter!) next to the platter and within “reach” of the cartridge.
    2)Turn the volume control of the amp to minimum. Gently lower the stylus onto the matchbox.
    3)Carefully switch the deck on. Slowly increase the volume control. The matchbox acts like a sounding board and amplifies any sound emanating from the deck.


    I'll check this method out sometime...
    As I said, I haven't noticed anything in the background of the music in quiet passages at higher volume.

    BUT, is more fuss made of this rumble issue than really exists??
    Its a real thing in a poorly maintained, poorly set up 301/401 and any other vintage idler. If its serviced professionally and in a properly designed, well made plinth then its not an issue imho.
    Regards Neil

  9. #19
    Join Date: Feb 2013

    Location: W Lothian

    Posts: 99,005
    I'm Grant.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WESTLOWER View Post
    I'm now intrigued by the Rumble element thrown into the other hifi worry soup in my life.

    I've yet to go looking for Rumble, as I simply cam't hear it in my 401 set up (Heavy layered plinth, Heavy Gun Metal platter mat, Sorbothane based feet system)
    although I've just been reading about the Match Box method of testing for Rumble..
    Not to confuse Rumble vibration from the Motor into the plinth with audible noise from the Motor (of which I have None!)

    Match Box method
    In order to check how much “noise” is getting from the motor to the deck chassis/plinth (and subsequently to the stylus):-

    1)Take a matchbox (ideally with a few matches in it) and place it on the chassis (NOT on the platter!) next to the platter and within “reach” of the cartridge.
    2)Turn the volume control of the amp to minimum. Gently lower the stylus onto the matchbox.
    3)Carefully switch the deck on. Slowly increase the volume control. The matchbox acts like a sounding board and amplifies any sound emanating from the deck.


    I'll check this method out sometime...
    As I said, I haven't noticed anything in the background of the music in quiet passages at higher volume.

    BUT, is more fuss made of this rumble issue than really exists??
    they have to be audiophile matches tho
    Regards,
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  10. #20
    Join Date: Mar 2008

    Location: Galashiels

    Posts: 13,669
    I'm inthescottishmafia.

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    Yes agreed. It’s not rocket science to service a Garrard if you’re at all handy, lots of how to’s on the net.

    I’m lucky enough to have a NOS 401 tucked away, I’ll get round to fettling it at some point, it’ll need a good service having never been used.
    “Music has always been a matter of energy to me, a question of fuel. Sentimental people call it inspiration, but what they really mean is fuel. I have always needed fuel. I am a serious consumer. On some nights I still believe that a car with the gas needle on empty can run about fifty more miles if you have the right music very loud on the radio”

    Hunter S Thompson

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