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Thread: Garrard plinth: Shindo vs Artisan Fidelity

  1. #31
    Join Date: Sep 2012

    Location: London

    Posts: 434
    I'm Nick.

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    So Andrew (Rexton), am I right in thinking you have a birch ply plinth from Moldova, as seen on ebay?
    They are certainly a bit of a bargain - have you been happy with yours?

  2. #32
    Join Date: Oct 2011

    Location: Glasgow/Italy

    Posts: 866
    I'm Drew.

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    They do look good but unfortunately they don't offer the possibility for a flush/sunken finish for the turntable...

    Quote Originally Posted by nickbaba View Post
    So Andrew (Rexton), am I right in thinking you have a birch ply plinth from Moldova, as seen on ebay?
    They are certainly a bit of a bargain - have you been happy with yours?

  3. #33
    montesquieu Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by WESTLOWER View Post
    I'm now intrigued by the Rumble element thrown into the other hifi worry soup in my life.

    I've yet to go looking for Rumble, as I simply cam't hear it in my 401 set up (Heavy layered plinth, Heavy Gun Metal platter mat, Sorbothane based feet system)
    although I've just been reading about the Match Box method of testing for Rumble..
    Not to confuse Rumble vibration from the Motor into the plinth with audible noise from the Motor (of which I have None!)

    Match Box method
    In order to check how much “noise” is getting from the motor to the deck chassis/plinth (and subsequently to the stylus):-

    1)Take a matchbox (ideally with a few matches in it) and place it on the chassis (NOT on the platter!) next to the platter and within “reach” of the cartridge.
    2)Turn the volume control of the amp to minimum. Gently lower the stylus onto the matchbox.
    3)Carefully switch the deck on. Slowly increase the volume control. The matchbox acts like a sounding board and amplifies any sound emanating from the deck.


    I'll check this method out sometime...
    As I said, I haven't noticed anything in the background of the music in quiet passages at higher volume.

    BUT, is more fuss made of this rumble issue than really exists??

    I bought one of these, just so I could hear what was going on with the TD124 - not content with hearing nothing through the speakers.

    https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Medi-Inn-...kAAOSwtfhYtBL7



    Don't laugh it's actually useful, so you can explore if whatever you are doing to reduce noise makes a difference.

    My plith is also solid cherry one, again by Russ, with a sapele wood surround to match my speakers. It weighs upwards of 40kg, is huge (600m wide by 450 deep) and sits on Townshend pods. It cost me way less than a grand and works extremely well with the Thorens.

    Rumble is not an issue on either my TD124 or on my Garrard 401. Both have been carefully fettled though.


    Quote Originally Posted by REXTON View Post
    Yep, my bad! I suppose importing Cherry wood from Japan gives you more chance of getting Japanese Cherry wood, but that leaves ( or leafs sorry bad pun) the problem of which Japanese Cherry wood. There are numerous native Japanese Cheery woods from the Prunus family. This introduces the rather sticky subject of trying to guess which Prunus Shindo used when making his plinths. Any copy to be accurate and sound correctly like a Shindo plinth would have to match Shindo's choice of Prunus, otherwise your not properly emulating (or sounding) like a Shindo plinth. I'll stick to my birch ply and not recede my hair line any further worrying about semantics!!

    Almost heading for a spot in Private Eye there ...


  4. #34
    Join Date: Aug 2018

    Location: London Knightsbridge

    Posts: 414
    I'm Nari.

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    I have been playing around with the 301 and 401 for years I wont bore with the one that actually sounds better, the plinth is so so important and tried so many from slate to all sorts of wood etc, also had a Shindo turntable and various collinson plinths also the Bastin max plinth thingy. For me if on a budget sound for pound it has to be the bastin sadly takes him ages and well as far as looks not the best, a bit boring one could say. The Bastin out classes the the Colinson plinths in my opinion it adds more weight to the sound with a much more open midrange I love the look of the Colinson plinths but as far as sounds can be a bit lifeless Bastin is a cleaver chappy for sure and so he should be been doing it a long time. I owned the shindo and the artisan at the same time with there own units and found the artisan had more drive and scale but the shindo got my toes tapping. I swapped plinths and the shindo does have something. Two years ago I purchased a RJC full walnut plinth from my dealer with a audio grail motor unit it was magical even with standard bearing etc it to my ears out classed the shindo again depends what you like the rjc/audiograil kind of dissapears like gostly silences can also sound dead sometime but its not it just is getting rid of so much grain its uncanny. While the shindo and artisan are adding something the RJC cutsworth can sound like there is some bass loss but its not its just not adding any extra bloat of color its weird all of a sudden it can roar and be gentle depending on the recording. There is more though the type of wood used in the custsworh does make a difference I tried anouther wood I borrowed a spalted beach one which the same signature is there you could still identify differences. I found both woods do the same in the not adding much and brings the best out of the 301 but the walnut seemed calmer sounding delicate while the spalted sounded kind of more powerful but in the same gostly way weird I know.

    There is more to this later on my dealer made a special bracket for the position of the RJC plinth he had it made out of brass and then had a pillar made holing the brass out of various different materials many different discs made the pillar. This took things further I thought mounting the arm this way made it sound even quieter and just more open funny enough. The material used for the arm board makes a huge difference you could drive yourself potty. I ended up having two arms on the RJC one in the normal position one on the back.

    I miss my 301 days as I got rid of the 301 to persue other avenues, for me the Bob Cutsworth makes the best plinth for the 301 period I have heard a BBC 301 RD5 in a spalted beach 301 and its magical quite a rare combo I actually borrowed that for a weekend. I just heard recently that RJC wont be making plinths any more which is sad I think it was a real bargain way too cheap when I consider the money I wasted on the others. On a budget and for something a bit plain looking the Bastin is wonderful he really knows his stuff thinking of performance first his prices are great and not only gets the job done but done well.

    I still have the shindo 301 but its packed away I will sell it some day soon.
    Last edited by Vrajbasi; 19-09-2018 at 16:58.
    Most important and used Walker Black Diamond Etsuro Gold, Micro Seiki 8000mk2 Kondo special V12 Tiger Eye, Fidelity Research FR 66 Shindo spu, EMT 927, sme 312 aluminium. Fidelity research fr66, Sme 3012 mk1, Sme V, Ikeda 407 IT Sme Model 30/2/Dynavector 507 Kodo Beat Turntable Airtangent 10B modified Fidelity fr66s Etsuro Cartridge . Kondo Gakuoh Mk1 powers G70 Pre,Audio Tekne TFA-8695PCS pre Audio Tekne TEA 8695 Phono. Lfd Battery Phono Stage heavily custom rebuilt by Dr Richard Bews, Tharx Phono Stage. Lfd Master Dual Biamp power amp, Lfd Anniversary master preamp. Shindo Latour Field Coil. Rockport Cygnus Biamped, Voigt Domestic Corner Horns/ Feastex Fildcoils. LFD Custom silver Ribbons. LFD Diamond Vipor Mk2 interconnects, Lfd Golden Cobra interconnect. Koetsu blue lace mono special order, Koetsu burma jade mono special order.

  5. #35
    Join Date: Nov 2008

    Location: North Down /Northern Ireland/ UK

    Posts: 19,484
    I'm Neil.

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    And how does one contact Martin Bastin ?
    Regards Neil

  6. #36
    montesquieu Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vrajbasi View Post
    ... I love the look of the Colinson plinths but as far as sounds can be a bit lifeless ...
    Calling utter bollocks on this. As I'm sure anyone who had heard mine (or indeed Adam's) could testify.

    Not a fan of the 301 in any case. Dull and lifeless for the most part compared to the 401 or my favourite, the TD124 (suitably Schoppered).

  7. #37
    Join Date: Nov 2017

    Location: Glossop

    Posts: 54
    I'm dave.

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    Hi there is a chap in Manchester called Carl who has a site on facebook called Plinthologygarrard 401.jpg


    this is his page https://www.facebook.com/23728616711...type=3&theater
    Any tool can be used as a hammer but a screwdriver makes the best chisel

  8. #38
    Join Date: Nov 2010

    Location: Yorkshire

    Posts: 9,295
    I'm Andrew.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nickbaba View Post
    So Andrew (Rexton), am I right in thinking you have a birch ply plinth from Moldova, as seen on ebay?
    They are certainly a bit of a bargain - have you been happy with yours?
    Yes very happy. I've had it for several years now. I may be tempted to try one from a ebayer over in Hungary.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vrajbasi View Post
    I have been playing around with the 301 and 401 for years I wont bore with the one that actually sounds better, the plinth is so so important and tried so many from slate to all sorts of wood etc, also had a Shindo turntable and various collinson plinths also the Bastin max plinth thingy. For me if on a budget sound for pound it has to be the bastin sadly takes him ages and well as far as looks not the best, a bit boring one could say. The Bastin out classes the the Colinson plinths in my opinion it adds more weight to the sound with a much more open midrange I love the look of the Colinson plinths but as far as sounds can be a bit lifeless Bastin is a cleaver chappy for sure and so he should be been doing it a long time. I owned the shindo and the artisan at the same time with there own units and found the artisan had more drive and scale but the shindo got my toes tapping. I swapped plinths and the shindo does have something. Two years ago I purchased a RJC full walnut plinth from my dealer with a audio grail motor unit it was magical even with standard bearing etc it to my ears out classed the shindo again depends what you like the rjc/audiograil kind of dissapears like gostly silences can also sound dead sometime but its not it just is getting rid of so much grain its uncanny. While the shindo and artisan are adding something the RJC cutsworth can sound like there is some bass loss but its not its just not adding any extra bloat of color its weird all of a sudden it can roar and be gentle depending on the recording. There is more though the type of wood used in the custsworh does make a difference I tried anouther wood I borrowed a spalted beach one which the same signature is there you could still identify differences. I found both woods do the same in the not adding much and brings the best out of the 301 but the walnut seemed calmer sounding delicate while the spalted sounded kind of more powerful but in the same gostly way weird I know.

    There is more to this later on my dealer made a special bracket for the position of the RJC plinth he had it made out of brass and then had a pillar made holing the brass out of various different materials many different discs made the pillar. This took things further I thought mounting the arm this way made it sound even quieter and just more open funny enough. The material used for the arm board makes a huge difference you could drive yourself potty. I ended up having two arms on the RJC one in the normal position one on the back.

    I miss my 301 days as I got rid of the 301 to persue other avenues, for me the Bob Cutsworth makes the best plinth for the 301 period I have heard a BBC 301 RD5 in a spalted beach 301 and its magical quite a rare combo I actually borrowed that for a weekend. I just heard recently that RJC wont be making plinths any more which is sad I think it was a real bargain way too cheap when I consider the money I wasted on the others. On a budget and for something a bit plain looking the Bastin is wonderful he really knows his stuff thinking of performance first his prices are great and not only gets the job done but done well.

    I still have the shindo 301 but its packed away I will sell it some day soon.
    Interesting post. You've got a lot of very desirable kit. Most of us cant afford what you've discussed so I think the vast majority of stuff we discuss is based around people that offer products we can afford. It's all subjective anyway .

    Quote Originally Posted by Dalek Supreme D L View Post
    And how does one contact Martin Bastin ?
    He's on the dog and bone.

    Quote Originally Posted by montesquieu View Post
    Calling utter bollocks on this. As I'm sure anyone who had heard mine (or indeed Adam's) could testify.

    Not a fan of the 301 in any case. Dull and lifeless for the most part compared to the 401 or my favourite, the TD124 (suitably Schoppered).
    I don't think it's utter bollocks Tom as we all have our own opinions.
    SS
    CD Teac VRDS25X(Audiotuned) DECK 1210 Mat Crystal Audio Mods MN Base/Bearing/Platter+Ebony armboard Feet Isonoe PSU Paul Hynes SR7EHD-27XL/DCSXL Ag DC lead/3 Stage Regs/Recap PCB+No Pitch/Strobe/Light ARM SME V(Kondo Ag Rewire&Tags) MC Cadenza Black FGS CABLES Arm Yannis SPD-4 IC Yannis 222 Litz+Ag bullets Power WAR PRE ATC SCA2 SPEAKERS ATC 50ASL STANDS Atacama PHONO Sugden Masterclass PA4 SUT Ortofon ST80SE POWER PSAudio P10

    VALVE
    PRE
    Croft Epoch(Modded) AMP Sondex S100 (Modded) SPEAKERS Tannoy 15"MG+RFC Warwick cabs+ Ref XO + Batpure supertweeters DECK Garrard 301 Mat Teunto Bearings 401(Bastin) Plinth Bamboo Arms 3009/3012 PSU Eagle+Tachometer MC Ag Meister II/FGS + Ortofon SPU MONO CABLES Arm Yannis 420.5 Litz+ SpeakerPC Tripple C+WBT-0681 Ag IC Oyaide FTVS-510 AgWBT 0110Ag Phonostages Paradise(4 Box Mega-Modded) / Croft Musicmaker



  9. #39
    Join Date: Nov 2010

    Location: Yorkshire

    Posts: 9,295
    I'm Andrew.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nutteronthebus View Post
    Hi there is a chap in Manchester called Carl who has a site on facebook called Plinthologygarrard 401.jpg


    this is his page https://www.facebook.com/23728616711...type=3&theater
    Got one for my Lenco 75. Very good.
    SS
    CD Teac VRDS25X(Audiotuned) DECK 1210 Mat Crystal Audio Mods MN Base/Bearing/Platter+Ebony armboard Feet Isonoe PSU Paul Hynes SR7EHD-27XL/DCSXL Ag DC lead/3 Stage Regs/Recap PCB+No Pitch/Strobe/Light ARM SME V(Kondo Ag Rewire&Tags) MC Cadenza Black FGS CABLES Arm Yannis SPD-4 IC Yannis 222 Litz+Ag bullets Power WAR PRE ATC SCA2 SPEAKERS ATC 50ASL STANDS Atacama PHONO Sugden Masterclass PA4 SUT Ortofon ST80SE POWER PSAudio P10

    VALVE
    PRE
    Croft Epoch(Modded) AMP Sondex S100 (Modded) SPEAKERS Tannoy 15"MG+RFC Warwick cabs+ Ref XO + Batpure supertweeters DECK Garrard 301 Mat Teunto Bearings 401(Bastin) Plinth Bamboo Arms 3009/3012 PSU Eagle+Tachometer MC Ag Meister II/FGS + Ortofon SPU MONO CABLES Arm Yannis 420.5 Litz+ SpeakerPC Tripple C+WBT-0681 Ag IC Oyaide FTVS-510 AgWBT 0110Ag Phonostages Paradise(4 Box Mega-Modded) / Croft Musicmaker



  10. #40
    montesquieu Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by REXTON View Post


    I don't think it's utter bollocks Tom as we all have our own opinions.
    My plinth was discussed extensively with Russ before construction and is a one-off design (though he's done three for me previously with different Garrard and Lenco motor units).. I don't see how you can write off all of a guy's work in this way. It is, indeed, utter bollocks.

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