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Thread: Safety first

  1. #1
    Join Date: Sep 2018

    Location: Estonia

    Posts: 94
    I'm Veiko.

    Default Safety first

    Hello!

    I have old XS-305RDS Pioneer Amp and new Heco Victa Prime 702 speakers.
    I use them mainly with chromecast audio. They work together great!

    But safety first.
    I have no reason to push the volume all the way up when listening to music,
    but there are situations where I can not control the usage habits of other people,
    and such a scenario CAN HAPPEN.

    My question to the forum is: what is the main risk with such a scenario, where the volume is turned way up to
    the maximum?

    And would the risk of damaging my equipment be lesser if I had more powerful amp with more wattage?

    I hope someone can answer me and thank You very much!

    Capture.jpg

  2. #2
    Join Date: Apr 2018

    Location: South East Cornwall

    Posts: 322
    I'm Dominic.

    Default

    The biggest risk to any system is not having enough power rather than having too much power. When an amplifier runs out of power, it is called "clipping" which means there is effectively direct current running through the speaker voice coils, which turns them into heater coils and they either burn out or distort the voice coil former and renders the drivers defective. The onset of distortion should not be ignored as that is a good sign the system is in distress.

    To a degree you should ignore power ratings of amplifiers and speakers. It is far safer to run a 100 watt amplifier into 10 watt rated speakers, than run a 10 watt amp into 100 watt speakers, as the 10 watt amp is likely to clip.

    However, this is not a rule set in stone as some amplifiers rated at less than 10 watts that can kick ass without running out of power
    CD player = Marantz CD6006
    DAC/pre = Rotel RC 1572
    Power amp = ADA PF201
    Speaks = Quadral Chromium Style 6

  3. #3
    Join Date: Jun 2014

    Location: Chorley Lancs

    Posts: 14,602
    I'm Steve.

    Default

    An underpowered amp would probably be worse for your speakers, as if overdriven, the signal will start clipping and I believe that is quite bad for the speakers' voice coils. Some better informed post should be along shortly, just as soon as they get out their lazy beds.

    Perhaps some kind of 'bump stop' could be stuck on the volume control, that physically stops the knob at a certain point.
    I just dropped in, to see what condition my condition was in

    T/T: Inspire Monarch, X200 tonearm, Ortofon Quintet Blue. Phono: Project Tube Box CD: Marantz CD6006 (UK Edition); Amp: Musical Fidelity A5 Integrated.
    Speakers: Zu Omen Def, REL T9i subwoofer. Cables: Atlas Equator interconnects, Atlas Hyper 3.0 speaker cables

    T'other system:
    Echo Dot, Amptastic Mini One,Arcam A75 integrated, Celestion 5's, BK XLS-200 DF

    A/V:
    LG 55" OLED, Panasonic Blu Ray, Sony a/v amp, MA Radius speakers, REL Storm sub

    Forget the past, it's gone. And don't worry about the future, it doesn't exist. There is only NOW.

    KICKSTARTER: ENABLING SCAMMERS SINCE 2009

  4. #4
    Join Date: Jun 2014

    Location: Chorley Lancs

    Posts: 14,602
    I'm Steve.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by nonuffin View Post
    The biggest risk to any system is not having enough power rather than having too much power. When an amplifier runs out of power, it is called "clipping" which means there is effectively direct current running through the speaker voice coils, which turns them into heater coils and they either burn out or distort the voice coil former and renders the drivers defective. The onset of distortion should not be ignored as that is a good sign the system is in distress.

    To a degree you should ignore power ratings of amplifiers and speakers. It is far safer to run a 100 watt amplifier into 10 watt rated speakers, than run a 10 watt amp into 100 watt speakers, as the 10 watt amp is likely to clip.

    However, this is not a rule set in stone as some amplifiers rated at less than 10 watts that can kick ass without running out of power
    There you go Veiko, a proper explanation! We've both learned something there.
    I just dropped in, to see what condition my condition was in

    T/T: Inspire Monarch, X200 tonearm, Ortofon Quintet Blue. Phono: Project Tube Box CD: Marantz CD6006 (UK Edition); Amp: Musical Fidelity A5 Integrated.
    Speakers: Zu Omen Def, REL T9i subwoofer. Cables: Atlas Equator interconnects, Atlas Hyper 3.0 speaker cables

    T'other system:
    Echo Dot, Amptastic Mini One,Arcam A75 integrated, Celestion 5's, BK XLS-200 DF

    A/V:
    LG 55" OLED, Panasonic Blu Ray, Sony a/v amp, MA Radius speakers, REL Storm sub

    Forget the past, it's gone. And don't worry about the future, it doesn't exist. There is only NOW.

    KICKSTARTER: ENABLING SCAMMERS SINCE 2009

  5. #5
    Join Date: Apr 2012

    Location: N E Kent

    Posts: 51,624
    I'm Geoff.

    Default

    Some NAD amplifiers offer 'soft clipping'. This provides a degree of protection.

  6. #6
    Join Date: Apr 2012

    Location: N E Kent

    Posts: 51,624
    I'm Geoff.


  7. #7
    Join Date: Sep 2018

    Location: Estonia

    Posts: 94
    I'm Veiko.

    Default

    Thank you Pigmy Pony!

  8. #8
    Join Date: Sep 2018

    Location: Estonia

    Posts: 94
    I'm Veiko.

    Default

    Thank you very much for an educated comment! I would like to ask, what kind of amp wattage would you consider ideal for these speakers?
    I have currently 60+60 w amp (see the specs sheet), but the speakers have power handling 170 RMS / 300 Max.
    I know that it doesn't just all depend on one figure, as you said yourself, but may be you can give me a little reference? I feel like 60 W is probably not ideal and I am keeping in mind this
    problem of clipping.

  9. #9
    Join Date: Aug 2009

    Location: Staffordshire, England

    Posts: 37,786
    I'm Martin.

    Default

    The Pioneer you have should be fine. Looks like a fantastic vintage receiver.

    There's no technical way to prevent someone whacking the volume all the way up and maybe blowing the speakers, that could happen regardless of the amplifier power. Try laying down the law with them before hand, threaten them with torture and death should they go within 5 feet of it. Or disconnect the speaker cables when you are not using it.
    Current Lash Up:

    TEAC VRDS 701T > Sony TAE1000ESD > Krell KSA50S > JM Labs Focal Electra 926.

  10. #10
    Join Date: Apr 2012

    Location: N E Kent

    Posts: 51,624
    I'm Geoff.

    Default

    Your speakers have decent sensitivity, so I think clipping is unlikely. In fact, you would probably be OK with as little as 30 watts per channel, but realistically regard 50 watts as a workable minimum.

    Other than that, as the power handling is generous, you could use just about any amp you like. The quoted impedance is 4 to 8 ohms, so it probably averages out at around 6 ohms which shouldn't bother modern amplifiers.

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