Sony TTS-8000 Turntable

[JohnG]

It looks like the only place with the searches I am doing at present, to get extensive discussion on TT Bearings is Lenco Heaven, there are a few different Brands Bearings discussed on there.
I have read up on run dry Sintered / Oilite Bushes, I believe we are in a criteria of usage as a Sewing Machine or Low Work rate,
and Singer Sewing Machine Oil, seems to be a viscosity that will be suitable, I have also read up on different formulas to produce DIY oils for a Bearing, this formula can be made to suit various work rates for a bearing.
A viewpoint that has been made on a forum discussing Sintered / Oilite Parts, is that if they end up running dry, then the fine dust metal particle produced, will seal the pores in the Oilite, resulting in any of the impregnated Lubricant being trapped, and the Oilite will be more akin to a Phosphur Bronze part in how it is functioning.
I don't know of the accuracy of this statement, but in the case of a very rare bearing that is appearing to be dry, it seems prudent to find away to introduce lubricant, as the dry environment for the spindle may have already left the Oilite in a condition as outlined above.
The other question is,
Is the Bush seen in the Housing on the TTS, Oilite or Phosphur Bronze ?

[YNWaN]

I have done work on bearings. Some years ago, when in discussion with a manufacturer of Oilite bushes, I was told that they were not suitable for use in a situation where the surface velocity was low - as is the case with a turntable main bearing. The reason is that the oil impregnated into the Oilite is drawn to the surface by heat and that heat is generated by the friction of the bearing shaft turning in the bushes. If there is insufficient speed to the turning shaft then there is insufficient friction and so little heat and so no oil is drawn to the surface of the Oilite.

There is a lot of misinformation, or muddled thinking, in the world of DIY turntable bearings. I think this is largely because the people involved tend to draw direct parallels between bearing systems that are not actually representative. In addition, it is my experience that people who describe themselves as engineers in audio often mean they have worked in engineering, but they aren’t actually trained in the theory of mechanical engineering. This means they tend to directly transfer their experience of bearing structures used in cars and lathes to those of turntables. Unfortunately, a turntable bearing has very little in common with those found in cars or lathes.

One common misconception is that very tight tolerances are essential. Whilst it seems obvious that precision parts should be closely matched it fails to take into account the relevance of lubrication and, specifically, the viscosity of that lubrication. If you have very closely matched components you need thin oil and as the tolerance gap increases you need increasingly viscous oil. In addition, most turntable bearings use dissimilar metals, or plastics, for the bearing shaft and bushing. This means that temperature variations will unevenly alter the tolerance gap between the bearing parts. If they are a very fine fit this can mean that seizure is possible or that friction levels vary (increase) considerably. For this reason some bearings are actively temperature controlled. The type of bearing SME use is interesting as the main shaft is tapered. This means that as the thrust pad is adjusted the gap between the bearing surfaces can be adjusted. Brinkmann use heated bearings and Spiral Groove use the same material for shaft and journal so they expand and contract at the same rate.

[willbewill]

Great post, food for thought, thanks

[karma67]

Yep top man, cheers mark, very informative.

[DiveDeepDog]

Re: the TTS, looks like a sintered bush (?) it's more red than the outer yellow, I'm no metal expert though.

Garrard's, the only time I've seen damage was with sewing machine oil, thankfully I experiment with a dodgy spare.
Interestingly, the 4HF bearing uses a captive ball on a mica (?) thrust plate, similar to the TTS, Thorens 124(+ more I've not seen) yet they chose sintered bronze pads for the 3/401. Maybe for longevity, although there's plenty of 4HF's about ?

We're guessing though and lack the decades of knowledge they amassed selling thousands of TT's.

[loheswaran]

I need to put together a TTS8000 plinth. I would love to get the TB2000 but they are rare as hens teeth.

As such hat is the closest material to Sony Bulk Moulding Compound - I think it may be very similar to Corian. I know that I can get my hands on a lead plinth from Top Class Audio, but I like the idea of the TB 2000 style plinth - Im sure Sony knew hat they were doing.

On another note mine TTS did not come it the original mat I have a sneaky suspicion that the Cartridgeman mat may be quite similar - anyone tried it out?

[oldius]

I need to put together a TTS8000 plinth. I would love to get the TB2000 but they are rare as hens teeth.

As such hat is the closest material to Sony Bulk Moulding Compound - I think it may be very similar to Corian. I know that I can get my hands on a lead plinth from Top Class Audio, but I like the idea of the TB 2000 style plinth - Im sure Sony knew hat they were doing.

On another note mine TTS did not come it the original mat I have a sneaky suspicion that the Cartridgeman mat may be quite similar - anyone tried it out?

The original mat is rare. I have one but, like most, the oil in the mat shifts centrifrugally to the perimeter over decades and creates a warped effect.

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[Nonnegativ]

I need to put together a TTS8000 plinth. I would love to get the TB2000 but they are rare as hens teeth.

As such hat is the closest material to Sony Bulk Moulding Compound - I think it may be very similar to Corian. I know that I can get my hands on a lead plinth from Top Class Audio, but I like the idea of the TB 2000 style plinth - Im sure Sony knew hat they were doing.

On another note mine TTS did not come it the original mat I have a sneaky suspicion that the Cartridgeman mat may be quite similar - anyone tried it out?

Regarding the TB-2000 plinth: They do come up for sale in Japan from time to time, but almost always together with a TTS-8000 which means the weight surpasses 40 kg. The weight is a problem since japanese post will handle packages with a limit of up to 20 kg. When I bought my TB-2000 in Japan I had to pursuade the packaging company to dismantle the TTS-8000 from the Plinth and ship them seperately. Offcourse the whole exercise came with an extra (premium) price.

As mentioned on another forum: The TTS-8000 in its TB-2000 plinth is like a holy grail for me so I can therefore justify (to myself) the amount paid for the purchase, packaging, shipping, vat and customs. The experience did put a financial hold on projects for a while afterwards, though. Compared to the one for sale in Germany it was still a bargain ;-)

Whether the TB-2000 plinth has any acoustical advantages over others plinths I really don't know. I just admire the craftmansship and history behind the product.

There is a TB-2000 for sale together with a TTS-8000 in Japan right now. Local pickup only - have you ever been to Japan ? ;-)

Regarding the Sony OL-2K mat: I have tried the Mitchell Gyromat, Transfi Reso-Mat, and Funk Acromat on the TTS-8000. The original OL-2K mat surpasses them all - closest came the Acromat.

I am a bit reluctant to try out Tenuto etc. due to the extra weight on the bearing etc., but maybe others have some experience on this.

[karma67]

I think the extra weight would only affect the delrin pad which can be replaced if needed, that’s my view but I could be wrong.

[DiveDeepDog]

I'm happy with acromat on mine and having seen the bearing the heavy copper one can stay elsewhere. I've not seen any evidence of getting the bearing out, let alone replacing the thrust pad.