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Thread: New cartridge advice - Ortofon 2M bronze

  1. #1
    Join Date: Mar 2016

    Location: Brighton, UK.

    Posts: 3,072
    I'm Mike.

    Default New cartridge advice - Ortofon 2M bronze

    Been using a Goldring cart over last year, can't remember the model number, but cost about £200, recently it started to sound shite,think I screwed up the cart body by misaligning the stylus and forcing it in, oh well. So went back to my old Ortofon 2M blue, an immediate improvement - just because this cart ain't broken, whereas the Goldring obv was. So been listening for a few hours, it still sounds a bit brighter/harsh than I'd like. Was reading about the 2M Black the other day, and one person said they listened to similar music to me, rock, 60s, etc and it was too clinical/harsh for them and they preferred their 2m Bronze, anyone got experience of this cart? Or can recommend any other cart for my tastes? Arm is Jelco 750D, nakamichi ca-5 as phono stage, also just bought a graham slee era V. Price in the £200 range. Ta.
    Edit, just read the what hi-fi review of 2m bronze and it sounds like exactly what I don't need! Analytical etc!!
    Goldring 1042 seems a contender, according to what hi-fi it overcomes the thinness of its test music - captain beefheart, one of my constant gripes is that beefheart sounds tinny and harsh on my system!
    Current system 1210 GR. CDP - Meridian G08. Amp -Sugden A21I - Sig. Wharfedale Lintons.

  2. #2
    Join Date: Oct 2017

    Location: Ontario, Canada

    Posts: 791
    I'm Svend.

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    Mike,

    Your read of the Bronze is quite accurate. I have compared the 2M Bronze with a Goldring 1022 (similar to the 1042 - same body, different stylus) on a Rega arm, and the 1022 was far more punchy, dynamic, full-bodied. Excellent bass drive and nice rich mids.

    The Bronze was also excellent, but quite different - more detailed, delicate, light-footed, quick. I wouldn't call it analytical, just not terribly full-bodied, more detailed, more air and ambiance than the Goldring, which was forward and direct by comparison.

    For most of the music that I presently have in my vinyl collection (jazz and rock), the Goldring sounded far better than the 2M Bronze. I'm sure if I had mostly classical or easy-going acoustic I might have preferred the lighter touch of the Bronze. But for straight-ahead driving jazz and rock, the Goldring is brilliant.

    I tried both carts with a Rega R200 arm, then on a Rega RB300 arm, the latter being lower mass than your Jelco. Compliance-wise the Jelco should be a better match for the 1022.

    Apparently the 1042 is even better yet than the 1022. Great cartridges!

    Bottom line: both the Ortofon and the Goldring are excellent, but I think the 1022 or 1042 fits your needs description better. Let me know if you need more feedback on either.

    Svend

  3. #3
    Join Date: Oct 2015

    Location: Woodmancote, West Sussex

    Posts: 1,629
    I'm Ian.

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    I've no experience of the 2M Bronze but I did have a 2M Black for quite a while. They are VERY fussy about setting up and require a lot of patience to get them in the sweet spot but once you find it the Black is a brilliant cartridge. Lots of people give up with them but they really are worth the effort. I used it with a Nakamichi CA 5 as well with great results.
    Turntable
    Toshiba SR-370/Mission 774/Van Damme cable with MS Starline plugs/Ortofon Quintet Black
    CD
    Cambridge CXC transport/modified Musical Fidelity X-DAC/modified Musical Fidelity X-10 V3 tube buffer
    Network Player
    Cambridge NP30
    Amplifier
    Denon HA-500 head amp/Nakamichi CA-5E pre-amp/Chinese passive RVC/Proton AA-1150 DMC power amp
    Speakers
    Mordaunt Short Signifer on original factory stands
    Cables
    Mogami with Rean Neutrik plugs/NVA LS5
    Headphones
    Sennheiser HD600/Sennheiser HD650/Koss Pro4 AA

  4. #4
    Join Date: Mar 2016

    Location: Brighton, UK.

    Posts: 3,072
    I'm Mike.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Svend N View Post
    Mike,

    Your read of the Bronze is quite accurate. I have compared the 2M Bronze with a Goldring 1022 (similar to the 1042 - same body, different stylus) on a Rega arm, and the 1022 was far more punchy, dynamic, full-bodied. Excellent bass drive and nice rich mids.

    The Bronze was also excellent, but quite different - more detailed, delicate, light-footed, quick. I wouldn't call it analytical, just not terribly full-bodied, more detailed, more air and ambiance than the Goldring, which was forward and direct by comparison.

    For most of the music that I presently have in my vinyl collection (jazz and rock), the Goldring sounded far better than the 2M Bronze. I'm sure if I had mostly classical or easy-going acoustic I might have preferred the lighter touch of the Bronze. But for straight-ahead driving jazz and rock, the Goldring is brilliant.

    I tried both carts with a Rega R200 arm, then on a Rega RB300 arm, the latter being lower mass than your Jelco. Compliance-wise the Jelco should be a better match for the 1022.

    Apparently the 1042 is even better yet than the 1022. Great cartridges!

    Bottom line: both the Ortofon and the Goldring are excellent, but I think the 1022 or 1042 fits your needs description better. Let me know if you need more feedback on either.

    Svend
    Thanks Svend, sounds like a good recommendation.
    Current system 1210 GR. CDP - Meridian G08. Amp -Sugden A21I - Sig. Wharfedale Lintons.

  5. #5
    Join Date: Mar 2016

    Location: Brighton, UK.

    Posts: 3,072
    I'm Mike.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian7633 View Post
    I've no experience of the 2M Bronze but I did have a 2M Black for quite a while. They are VERY fussy about setting up and require a lot of patience to get them in the sweet spot but once you find it the Black is a brilliant cartridge. Lots of people give up with them but they really are worth the effort. I used it with a Nakamichi CA 5 as well with great results.
    Patient or nimble fingered I ain't! Be interesting to see how the slee stacks up against the Nak. How do you connect your Nak, tape out?
    Current system 1210 GR. CDP - Meridian G08. Amp -Sugden A21I - Sig. Wharfedale Lintons.

  6. #6
    Join Date: Oct 2015

    Location: Woodmancote, West Sussex

    Posts: 1,629
    I'm Ian.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikeandvan View Post
    Patient or nimble fingered I ain't! Be interesting to see how the slee stacks up against the Nak. How do you connect your Nak, tape out?
    I used tape out when I ran it into my Musical Fidelity A3 but now I have the Proton power amp so I use the pre out 1 RCA. I've noticed that the line inputs are pretty good as well, CD etc. As you know the phono stage is bloody good, I think you'd have to go a long way to better it. Have you seen the prices they go for now?.

    I think a lot of the difficulty setting up the Black is the actual shape of the cartridge body, it's all curves and angles so it's hard to find reference points when using a protractor. Both Jamie and myself ended up using feeler gauges to set the VTA. My middle name is Sausage Fingers and I do swear a lot when stuff refuses to cooperate but I got there eventually. When I got the Quintet Black it was so easy to set up as it is just a rectangular body, same stylus as the 2M though.
    Turntable
    Toshiba SR-370/Mission 774/Van Damme cable with MS Starline plugs/Ortofon Quintet Black
    CD
    Cambridge CXC transport/modified Musical Fidelity X-DAC/modified Musical Fidelity X-10 V3 tube buffer
    Network Player
    Cambridge NP30
    Amplifier
    Denon HA-500 head amp/Nakamichi CA-5E pre-amp/Chinese passive RVC/Proton AA-1150 DMC power amp
    Speakers
    Mordaunt Short Signifer on original factory stands
    Cables
    Mogami with Rean Neutrik plugs/NVA LS5
    Headphones
    Sennheiser HD600/Sennheiser HD650/Koss Pro4 AA

  7. #7
    Join Date: Mar 2016

    Location: Brighton, UK.

    Posts: 3,072
    I'm Mike.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian7633 View Post
    I used tape out when I ran it into my Musical Fidelity A3 but now I have the Proton power amp so I use the pre out 1 RCA. I've noticed that the line inputs are pretty good as well, CD etc. As you know the phono stage is bloody good, I think you'd have to go a long way to better it. Have you seen the prices they go for now?.

    I think a lot of the difficulty setting up the Black is the actual shape of the cartridge body, it's all curves and angles so it's hard to find reference points when using a protractor. Both Jamie and myself ended up using feeler gauges to set the VTA. My middle name is Sausage Fingers and I do swear a lot when stuff refuses to cooperate but I got there eventually. When I got the Quintet Black it was so easy to set up as it is just a rectangular body, same stylus as the 2M though.
    The only other phono stages I've used are the Naim cards in old Naim shoebox amps. But recently got sick of not having a remote, so switched to the Naim nait 5, which so far I like. With so much switching around its hard to get an idea of the Naks attributes, also the Goldring 2200 I was using for the past year went caput, so now using an old - but still perfectly useable Ortfon 2m blue, the sound overall is pretty good but still has a harshness at higher levels, which I'd like to tame if I can. Anyway, thought I'd try another - well respected - phono stage and compare the two, let you know how I get on, need to reacquaint myself to the sound of the 2M first for a few days, then try the Slee. Then its try a new cart time, I also have a pretty well used Denon dl110 that I can dig out, pretty sure that's still useable too.
    Current system 1210 GR. CDP - Meridian G08. Amp -Sugden A21I - Sig. Wharfedale Lintons.

  8. #8
    Join Date: May 2008

    Location: A Strangely Isolated Place in Suffolk with Far Away Trains Passing By...

    Posts: 14,535
    I'm David.

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    "Where I come from," the Bronze is the more 'truthful' but where vinyl's concerned, who ever gives a feck about accuracy to the source (if properly cut and pressed from the master recordings) - and I do have a little first hand experience and gleaned knowledge here...

    The Goldring 1042 used to sound great in a Rega 3 with RB300, the two playing to each other's strengths, but when I tried a 1042 away from this deck, I was disappointed by a scratchy (sorry) one note treble, a boppy bass not especially tuneful and not that inspiring midband. maybe it was me, I don't know...

    The newish AT540 seems to be well liked - with a translator, look on the German Lowbeats site for subjective, measurement and sound-byte files of the AT's and 2M's... Unlike the 60's and 70's, the desire seems to be for a flat lower top response, but with MM's especially, a slight rise above 10k, which some iffy phono stages may react to, causing more harshness than is really there perhaps?

    Sorry to say it, but the bottleneck for you may well be the Nait 5, as push it a fraction too far and it distorts nastily in my experience over the years... The CA5 should be fine as a phono stage though, if a little airless as a full blown preamp (I went for a beautifully made CA7 myself at the end and this was trounced by a Croft - cough...)

    The Interspace shouldn't at all be an impediment ime... and neither should the jelco with a touch of damping applied if necessary.

    You could also consider the Hana high output model which the Jelco will like. Don't know about current ortofon MC's now Henley only deal with full-range stockists (and Ortofon do some second rate stuff in addition to the gems, so not worth a small dealer stocking it all in my trade experience and opinion)..

    Good luck - you won't go wrong really with either of the two initial choices really. Maybe a Spacemat to help tame any top distortions if you don't have one already (it's only twenty quid or so and I'd be lost without mine)..
    Tear down these walls; Cut the ties that held me
    Crying out at the top of my voice; Tell me now if you can hear me

  9. #9
    Join Date: Mar 2016

    Location: Brighton, UK.

    Posts: 3,072
    I'm Mike.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DSJR View Post
    "Where I come from," the Bronze is the more 'truthful' but where vinyl's concerned, who ever gives a feck about accuracy to the source (if properly cut and pressed from the master recordings) - and I do have a little first hand experience and gleaned knowledge here...

    The Goldring 1042 used to sound great in a Rega 3 with RB300, the two playing to each other's strengths, but when I tried a 1042 away from this deck, I was disappointed by a scratchy (sorry) one note treble, a boppy bass not especially tuneful and not that inspiring midband. maybe it was me, I don't know...

    The newish AT540 seems to be well liked - with a translator, look on the German Lowbeats site for subjective, measurement and sound-byte files of the AT's and 2M's... Unlike the 60's and 70's, the desire seems to be for a flat lower top response, but with MM's especially, a slight rise above 10k, which some iffy phono stages may react to, causing more harshness than is really there perhaps?

    Sorry to say it, but the bottleneck for you may well be the Nait 5, as push it a fraction too far and it distorts nastily in my experience over the years... The CA5 should be fine as a phono stage though, if a little airless as a full blown preamp (I went for a beautifully made CA7 myself at the end and this was trounced by a Croft - cough...)

    The Interspace shouldn't at all be an impediment ime... and neither should the jelco with a touch of damping applied if necessary.

    You could also consider the Hana high output model which the Jelco will like. Don't know about current ortofon MC's now Henley only deal with full-range stockists (and Ortofon do some second rate stuff in addition to the gems, so not worth a small dealer stocking it all in my trade experience and opinion)..

    Good luck - you won't go wrong really with either of the two initial choices really. Maybe a Spacemat to help tame any top distortions if you don't have one already (it's only twenty quid or so and I'd be lost without mine)..
    Yes I read elsewhere the Nak amps weren't as good as their reputation suggests. Something is certainly sounding harsh in my system at higher levels, wonder if an additional power supply would help the Nait along? Like a flatcap or Teddycap, it was a bargain anyway at £250 with a recent Naim service.Still, I'll have to do a bit of box swapping with the Nak and slee, and probably a new cart should be got, both the 2M and Denon have had at least 1 year at high playing levels, about 2 hours a day.
    Current system 1210 GR. CDP - Meridian G08. Amp -Sugden A21I - Sig. Wharfedale Lintons.

  10. #10
    Join Date: Sep 2014

    Location: brighton uk.

    Posts: 4,737
    I'm jamie.

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    how about a denon 103r ?
    the 2m black is a very good cartridge but takes time to set up,dont worry about the shape of it as its always best to align the cantilever with the protractor rather than the cartridge body.
    i bought a space mat for my lp12 a while ago,it didn't do much for me plus it didn't fit,if you want it your welcome to it.
    My System
    John Wood KT88 Amp.
    Paradise Phono Stage
    Sony TTS-8000 Turntable.
    PMAT-1010 MK6 Tonearm.
    Ortofon Cadenza Bronze
    Sony X555ES Cd Player
    Yamaha NS1000m Speakers

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