Adventures into turntable differences (or how to become a NURD!)

[AJSki2fly]

I own a Modified LFD battery disc preamp its been through many revisions and vast amounts of dosh I love it to bits its one of my most loved bits of kit.

Yes I think my hybrid LFD MMC would be hard to beat as well without spending lots.

[sbank]

OP, dude, you are totally missing the answer here. Many adjust the VTA on every LP, at least to the level of knowing what VTA sounds best on a standard pressing, a 180g thicker pressing vs. a 200g pressing. Some of those records, guessing the Eva Cassidy, for example are thicker and should have the back of the arm higher than a thinner pressing. Also every cartridge/cantilever is mounted at a slightly differing angle another reason to adjust the arm height by ear, since some setups will sound better a tad higher or lower than parallel to the platter. This is why so many top arms have repeatable or even better on-the-fly VTA adjusters. Once you pick your platter don't be shy about adjusting in either direction as you play thicker/thinner albums. Generally low back of arm will increase bass; too low and it will start to sound a tad sluggish. Higher in the back will add air and sparkle on the top end; too high in the back will get harsh in the treble and lose a bit off rhythm. That's a gross over-generalization, but you will get the idea.
Also suggest just try experimenting with 2 or 3 LPs of widely varying thickness to get feel for the impact of VTA changes in your rig. Then apply those learnings on everything.

[karma67]

its a common mistake i think to use vta/sra as a tone control,its not,the best way i have found is to use a record with lots going on. i then adjust vta untill i can hear all the instruments nicely separated and in focus,then i make tiny tracking force changes to dial in the sweet spot.
this is the perfect record for this,track 2 https://www.discogs.com/Norman-Blake.../master/362879

[AJSki2fly]

OP, dude, you are totally missing the answer here. Many adjust the VTA on every LP, at least to the level of knowing what VTA sounds best on a standard pressing, a 180g thicker pressing vs. a 200g pressing. Some of those records, guessing the Eva Cassidy, for example are thicker and should have the back of the arm higher than a thinner pressing. Also every cartridge/cantilever is mounted at a slightly differing angle another reason to adjust the arm height by ear, since some setups will sound better a tad higher or lower than parallel to the platter. This is why so many top arms have repeatable or even better on-the-fly VTA adjusters. Once you pick your platter don't be shy about adjusting in either direction as you play thicker/thinner albums. Generally low back of arm will increase bass; too low and it will start to sound a tad sluggish. Higher in the back will add air and sparkle on the top end; too high in the back will get harsh in the treble and lose a bit off rhythm. That's a gross over-generalization, but you will get the idea.
Also suggest just try experimenting with 2 or 3 LPs of widely varying thickness to get feel for the impact of VTA changes in your rig. Then apply those learnings on everything.

Hello, Thanks for your reply. I think I did understand the issues though as I said in my first post at the bottom "So one thing this has taught me is that small changes to a turntable setup can have big impact, getting the arm height right for example made a big improvement to the sound with both platters, even though I thought I had it right it wasn't."

I do appreciate that different thickness records will impact the height of the rear of the arm and move it up or down depending on thickness and initial set up. I note that you have and SME V arm, are you saying that you adjust the rear arm height every time you move to a different thickness of arm? As far as I'm aware this is not the easiest thing to do on and SME IV or V as it requires the vertical arm clamp to be slackened off, unless I am misunderstanding something? After slackening the arm clamp off I raised or lowered and re-clamped tight, not the easiest thing to do. I set mine up using and old mid thickness LP just in case I caused the arm to skate over the record, its not something I would want to do with a good record for obvious reasons. So yes the set up will be good for some records and not perfect for others.

Regards

Adrian

[sbank]

Yes, your understanding is correct in what I'm suggesting. But depending on your cartridge, some are more sensitive than others in how much a tiny VTA change will affect the sound. Trust your ears and decide how much trouble it's worth to YOU. I have plenty of friends that found a decent mid-point and never adjust it. Another goes so far as to weigh every record on a digital scale, convert the weight to approximate thickness to guide his VTA starting point and once he dials it in for that LP he writes his VTA setting on a sticker placed on the outer sleeve so he knows where he wants arm height for that record. With his uber fancy Walker turntable every detail is revealed and he has decided that such extreme effort yields worthwhile payback. Different courses...
Agree with the other comment that you don't want to use VTA as a tone control. You should be able to find an optimum point where upper end detail is more revealed, sibilants are minimized, yet bass isn't sluggish or muddied. The tonal aspects are simply indicators to help you find the sweet spot.
Lastly, if you intend to leave one VTA setting all the time and most of your more serious listening is thicker reissues, optimize VTA for those; conversely if your go to LPs are mainly thinner originals, optimize for those. Cheers,

Spencer

[mikeyb]

Rega don't even worry about vta.

[karma67]

Rega don't even worry about vta.

yep a silly choice imo as cartridges are not all the same size in height.

[DSJR]

Neither does digital, but I'm missing the point here aren't I?

The stylus compliance can be used to adjust VTA with tracking weight. Linn claimed the lowish compliance Troika could, with 1/10 gramme tracking force difference, be the same as 1.5mm up or down at the pivot. I did some playing at the time and you know what? In this instance Linn weren't wrong!!!

Many far eastern sourced cartridges have too steep a rake angle on the diamond too, which can increase measured, if not audible, distortions. Vinyl is such a minefield of bodges, 'just' concentrating on VTA is seriously a waste of time imo and you may just find that once a modern stylus profile (even ML and modern Shibata types) are set properly, it'll work with a lot of records (it certainly doesn't seem to with stock ellipticals and any conical stylus I've played with).

But then, we audio-peeps love to play and adjust and play some more, as it's half the fun for us ain't it? half these differences can also be small volume changes too and once, I was surprised to get all subjective over two sound files played me, the only difference being the second file had one channel increased by half a db...