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Thread: Speaker Toe Angle. Sound stage vs Frequency responce

  1. #1
    Join Date: Oct 2017

    Location: Coventry

    Posts: 130
    I'm Mick.

    Default Speaker Toe Angle. Sound stage vs Frequency responce

    Ive noticed that when I set my speaker position, they end up with very little or no toe-in, the sound-stage is stunning,
    But the frequency response is slightly reduced for the high frequencies 1khz upward.

    (Room layout: there is 5ft between the speakers and 7ft between the speakers and me, the room is 11 by 20ft and the speakers are on the short wall 2ft from the bay window with 3 ft to the side walls)

    Has anyone else experienced this?

    I use a combination of music, close miked samples and test tones.

    Whats your setup process for speaker position?

  2. #2
    Join Date: Nov 2011

    Location: Wakefield west yorkshire

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    I'm James.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mixc View Post
    Ive noticed that when I set my speaker position, they end up with very little or no toe-in, the sound-stage is stunning,
    But the frequency response is slightly reduced for the high frequencies 1khz upward.

    (Room layout: there is 5ft between the speakers and 7ft between the speakers and me, the room is 11 by 20ft and the speakers are on the short wall 2ft from the bay window with 3 ft to the side walls)

    Has anyone else experienced this?

    I use a combination of music, close miked samples and test tones.

    Whats your setup process for speaker position?
    Plonk em down either side of the system firing straight on then gradually toe in until they sound 'right with my current speakers I went back to more or less straight on
    novafidelity x40 music server/pre/dac, Arcam A39, roksan k3 power amp,Monitor Audio Monitor 50, Dali spektor 1, van damme interconnects and speaker cable, roskan k3 CD player

  3. #3
    Join Date: Jun 2015

    Location: London/Durham

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    I'm Lawrence.

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    Firstly why are you taking measurements, do they not sound good to you? It's a slippery slope judging a meter and not your ears.

    If you point the speakers straight ahead then you are listening off axis which reduces treble response, the exact amount depending on the speaker's polar response. Do you prefer the sound if they point at you? In which case that's the best way to position them. If you can't live with the reduced stage width then you can look at what absorbent features you have, rugs and curtains are usually the biggest contributors. With an old set up of mine I used to prefer the sound with the curtains closed so closed them every time I did some serious listening. If you can't make any changes here, then there are other options like cables, "supertweeters" (ie not the type that roll off sharply at 20khz but those that contribute noticeably to the audible spectrum), and, perish the thought, tone controls.

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    Last edited by Lawrence001; 03-09-2018 at 19:29.

  4. #4
    Join Date: Aug 2009

    Location: Staffordshire, England

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    I'm Martin.

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    I also prefer to have the speakers straight on, agree I gives a better soundstage. Not surprising there is less top end that way as the higher in frequency you go the more directional it is.


    I also close the curtains behind me, surprising how much more depth this seems to give the soundstage.


    Brave man admitting to actually measuring stuff on this forum, expect to see an angry mob of subjectivists armed with torches and pitchforks coming up your driveway soon
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  5. #5
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Norwich

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    I'm Mike.

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    At least you're firing down the room and not across. Without info. about your speakers it's all guesswork, I'm afraid. 3' away from side walls and only 5' between does sound a bit excessive, although tends to suggest stand-mounts. 2' away from rear wall/bay rends to suggest (rear?) ported. Anyway, 2 x 3' + 5' + speaker width don't add up to 11' so not sure what's happening here. B.t.w., 20 x 11 ' is a lovely audio space for a lot of speakers. The lack of midrange ((1 khz up) might be because of the tweeter dispersion not being wide enough or aimed sufficiently for your 7' (which is a bit too close in that room)

  6. #6
    Join Date: Oct 2017

    Location: Coventry

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    I'm Mick.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pieoftheday View Post
    Plonk em down either side of the system firing straight on then gradually toe in until they sound 'right with my current speakers I went back to more or less straight on
    I do something similar, but the sweet spot is very narrow and i am trying to increase as I also use the setup for films in currently in 4.1 surround.

  7. #7
    Join Date: Feb 2013

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  8. #8
    Join Date: Oct 2017

    Location: Coventry

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    I'm Mick.

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    "firstly why are you taking measurements, do they note sound good to you?"
    I first set the speakers by ear and then, run a setup using a mic for the processor, when i view the graph for the eq it tells me that my response is low at the top end.
    They sound lovely, I like experimenting and wondered if others had found the same as me.
    PS i turn the EQ off, for films and push the pure direct button for music. (Yamaha CX a5000)
    The speakers i have have a reputation for being bright ...
    Thanks for the suggestions.

  9. #9
    Join Date: Apr 2008

    Location: Warrington

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    I'm Neil.

    Default Speaker Toe Angle. Sound stage vs Frequency responce

    My Royd RR3 standpoints are around 5M apart, firing lengthways. This is what the man Joe Akroyd recommended on setup ‘at least twice as wide as usual’. They are quite toed in and away from the wall, because having flat firing is always bad. Sorry to husbands and boyfriends that need their speakers flat either side of a rack or cabinet.
    Mana Acoustics Racks / Bright Star IsoNodes Decoupling >> Allo DigiOne Player >> Pedja Rogic's Audial Model S DAC + Pioneer PL-71 turntable / Vista Audio phono-1 mk II / Denon PCL-5 headshell / Reson Reca >> LFD DLS >> LFD PA2M (SE) >> Royd RR3s.

  10. #10
    Join Date: Oct 2017

    Location: Coventry

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    I'm Mick.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Macca View Post
    I also prefer to have the speakers straight on, agree I gives a better soundstage. Not surprising there is less top end that way as the higher in frequency you go the more directional it is.


    I also close the curtains behind me, surprising how much more depth this seems to give the soundstage.


    Brave man admitting to actually measuring stuff on this forum, expect to see an angry mob of subjectivists armed with torches and pitchforks coming up your driveway soon
    I was interested how many people opt for sound stage vs response, hence my question.
    I always seem to position for sound stage, when i try to aim my speakers at the listening position i lose the stage completely.
    I haven noticed it sounding dull and i don't know how accurate the mic is.
    I sit about midway down the room, so i don't her the reflections from the rear wall.

    And what wrong with measuring ... so long as use my ears aswell ;O)

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