Whats the most one would shelve out on a cartridge

[Mike Reed]

The current Koetsu cartridges are generally not as lush as they were.

I agree. The Sugano son offerings (post 2004 ish) brought his father's signature sound into the modern age. Still very Koetsu, but more dynamic. I do wonder just what the stone bodied ones (esp. the Coralstone) bring to the party over the Urushi range. However, price and arm compatibility will probably mean that I'll never know, barring a high premium bond win !

[Vrajbasi]

I agree. The Sugano son offerings (post 2004 ish) brought his father's signature sound into the modern age. Still very Koetsu, but more dynamic. I do wonder just what the stone bodied ones (esp. the Coralstone) bring to the party over the Urushi range. However, price and arm compatibility will probably mean that I'll never know, barring a high premium bond win !

The coral stone is not as warm as the early koetsu,s but does have a very solid bas and lovely midrange flow but a little boring, the Jade is warmer sounding but very boring, the tiger eye tends to be my fav at the moment it has a good balance of warmth and detail, much more open and fleshed out than say a Madake

The black Oynx is stunning it has a shimmering midrange we compared it to other stone bodied varients but very rare I have a friend in Austria who has one he has one on a Airforce one with SAT arm and also has rare red stone bodied one on a Micro seiki 8000 mk2 like mine with a axiom tonearm I prefer the sound of his Micro with the red onyx compared to black one and the black one on the Airforce.

Generally the stone bodied cartridges are faster sounding with greater bass depth and far more transparent voices are fuller sounding. The Diamond cantilevered cartridges are magical a different class the best I have heard is a Blue Tiger eye with diamond cantilever my dealer has one on his own turntable he kindly allowed me to hear it at home. Each stone bodied cartridge seems to possess its own unique trait,the wonderful world of audio madness.I use a boron tiger eye for now and sometimes a blue onyx boron I cant justify the diamond cantilever at 4.5k premium maybe one day.

[Yomanze]

£350 for a body, and readily available stylii at £175 a pop. Am too clumsy, and vinyl a distinct secondary source, to justify expensive MCs. Would rather just replace a stylus. Having said this I haven’t had any accidents... yet.

[paulf-2007]

I owned a Shure Ultra 500 back in the late 80s on a Pink Triangle Anniversary Sme V combo loved it, I then discovered the fabulous Audio Technica 170ML that was available from the united states for $200 that blew the 500 away but still loved the 500. Back in those days you could get really nice cartridges for no so much money well sort of the Ultra 500 was £500 back then.

The ultra 500 I have has a Martin Bastin body, someone did wonder if the extra weight of the body was compatible with the stylus compliance, maybe the damper helps with that, all I can say is it sounds bloody wonderful.

[Vrajbasi]

The ultra 500 I have has a Martin Bastin body, someone did wonder if the extra weight of the body was compatible with the stylus compliance, maybe the damper helps with that, all I can say is it sounds bloody wonderful.

I had a V-15MR Ltd Edition which had a bastion body I purchased that from a shop in Kentish Town called Vinyl Tube audio in 1989, had so many goodies in the shop I purchased a notts analogue mentor reference in white nice turntable remember it fondly.

[alphaGT]

I’ve always subscribed to the theory of equal portions in an analog rig. One should look to spend the same amount on the ‘table, tonearm, cart, and preamp. If you’ve got a £1,000 table, a £1,000 arm would be a good match, so a cartridge from £500 to £1,000 would be a good match, and that will require a preamp of some quality.

Sure these rules are flexible, lots of people have super expensive arms on good inexpensive ‘tables, or less expensive cartridges on an expensive ‘table, and probably skimping on the preamp is the most common imbalance. It’s all up to the creator, what you want from your rig, and what you like! Even how good your hearing is.

But I feel it may be a waste to put a £2500 cart on a £500 record player with factory arm. Or to take an entry level record player and run it through a £2500 preamp, trying to match the quality of each part equally will give you the best performance from each piece. So, how much should you spend on a cartridge? Well, how much did you spend on the ‘Table? How much for the arm? That figure is a good place to start shopping for a cartridge. Maybe you’ll be happy with much less? Or get away with much more? The arm on my VPI costs about a $1000, but I’m sure it will do justice to a cart costing twice that much. But I’ve got a $500 cart on it and it sounds great! So I’ve been shopping in the $1000 range, I’m not sure what improvements I’ll see for my extra money? But I’m sure my ‘table and Arm are up to the task.

Russell

[walpurgis]

You can find exceptions. A grand's worth of ZYX MC cartridge will work happily in a standard Goldring Lenco GL75 arm. A £70 Denon amp will drive expensive classic Tannoys and make very acceptable sounds. I'm sure there are other examples. I'm tempted to bung my ZYX R100 02H in my PL-12D to see what happens.

[Barry]

I’ve always subscribed to the theory of equal portions in an analog rig. One should look to spend the same amount on the ‘table, tonearm, cart, and preamp. If you’ve got a £1,000 table, a £1,000 arm would be a good match, so a cartridge from £500 to £1,000 would be a good match, and that will require a preamp of some quality.

Sure these rules are flexible, lots of people have super expensive arms on good inexpensive ‘tables, or less expensive cartridges on an expensive ‘table, and probably skimping on the preamp is the most common imbalance. It’s all up to the creator, what you want from your rig, and what you like! Even how good your hearing is.

But I feel it may be a waste to put a £2500 cart on a £500 record player with factory arm. Or to take an entry level record player and run it through a £2500 preamp, trying to match the quality of each part equally will give you the best performance from each piece. So, how much should you spend on a cartridge? Well, how much did you spend on the ‘Table? How much for the arm? That figure is a good place to start shopping for a cartridge. Maybe you’ll be happy with much less? Or get away with much more? The arm on my VPI costs about a $1000, but I’m sure it will do justice to a cart costing twice that much. But I’ve got a $500 cart on it and it sounds great! So I’ve been shopping in the $1000 range, I’m not sure what improvements I’ll see for my extra money? But I’m sure my ‘table and Arm are up to the task.

Russell

Whilst I can understand the mantra "source first", and hence that is where proportionally the most should be spent, I often think if you have a modest amp and speakers how will you hear how good the 'front end' sounds? So in that respect, I'm in agreement with you in that one should spend more or less the same amount on each part of the replay chain (though I wouldn't dream of spending a large amount on cables).

A further difficulty comes with mixing vintage and new components. If the vintage components were bought new, their current value may be a lot more than what was paid. So for example I have used a £400 cartridge in a £25 arm on a £38 turntable (EMT XSD-15, SME 3009 and Thorens TD124/II respectively) and conversely I have used a £50 cartridge in a £600 arm (ADC 25 in a Breuer Dynamic 5A arm). Or a £50 cartridge in a £2,500 arm/turntable (Denon 103 on an EMT930/929 combination).

And now I'm using a £1,000 cartridge on a £1,500 arm on a £38 turntable.

[paulf-2007]

I had a V-15MR Ltd Edition which had a bastion body I purchased that from a shop in Kentish Town called Vinyl Tube audio in 1989, had so many goodies in the shop I purchased a notts analogue mentor reference in white nice turntable remember it fondly.

I remember vinyl tube, I lived not far from there in Highgate Road, never ventured in as we had young children then and hifi wasn't on my radar.

[paulf-2007]

You can find exceptions. A grand's worth of ZYX MC cartridge will work happily in a standard Goldring Lenco GL75 arm. A £70 Denon amp will drive expensive classic Tannoys and make very acceptable sounds. I'm sure there are other examples. I'm tempted to bung my ZYX R100 02H in my PL-12D to see what happens.

Sony STR 6055 receiver driving Zu Omen, using the on board phono stage is as good as any of the valve stages I've used with the DP80, stax arm and all three of my favourite carts.