Will a well-modded Technics 1210 see off a Michell Orbe?

[nickbaba]

This forum is really something - I've been researching lots of AoS "such-&-such TT v Technics 1210" threads over the last couple of nights, and every time I come up with a TT I think might be an interesting candidate, I find an AoS thread that at some point will say "A modded 1210 sounds better"...!
The Michell decks, Garrard 301/401, Linn LP12s, Brinkmann Bardo/Oasis... this is really the forum of the Technics lover! So I guess I'm in the right place... doesn't give me any excuse to scratch that itch for a new TT though... every time i think I've found a contender I get talked out of it.
Guess I'll just have to accept that I already have a great-sounding TT!

[Marco]

Short answer: YES! [In the areas where the Technics excels].

*But*, it'll sound like an SL-1210, with all the traits of a good direct-drive T/T, not an Orbe, which presents music quite differently and has its own enviable traits, which through design, NO Technics, however well-modded can emulate, let alone "see off".

Sorry to throw the cat back in among the pigeons, but things are never quite that simple!

Marco.

[RobbieGong]

Short answer: YES! [In the areas where the Technics excels].

*But*, it'll sound like an SL-1210, with all the traits of a good direct-drive T/T, not an Orbe, which presents music quite differently and has its own enviable traits, which through design, NO Technics, however well-modded can emulate, let alone "see off".

Sorry to throw the cat back in among the pigeons, but things are never quite that simple!

Marco.

Very well put !

[Marco]

Well.... One thing an Orbe does better than a Techy, no matter how well-modded, is soundstage width and depth, along with subtle levels of detail retrieval, which I find is only available from best belt-drive T/Ts, and simply not emulated by any D/D I've heard, as it tends to be masked by an overriding sonic 'muscularity'.

Therefore, if the former really matters, then an Orbe would be the way to go, as belt-drive T/Ts tend to reproduce music a little more subtly.

Me? Of course I care about that stuff, but other things to me matter more, such as rock-solid speed/pitch stability, together with an addictive heft/drive and 'boogie factor', in my experience only produced by D/Ds and idlers [it's mainly how their respective platters and high-torque motors work in unison, to 'push' music along].

In that respect, low-powered belt-drives sound rather 'weedy' and inept in comparison, and simply aren't as pitch accurate. Alternatively, if you're a big imaging/detail freak, there are better T/Ts out there than a Techy, no matter how well-modded. As they say, you pays yer money and takes yer choice!

Marco.

[RobbieGong]

Yep!

The detail aspect is a minor though - stick something like one of the Shibata Ortofons on and you'll be rewarded with untold detail retrieval.

Expanding the sound stage I found a bit harder.

Mine only really increased / improved noticeably once I'd fully modded it / the Techie.

[Marco]

Yup, same with mine. I'm pretty sure that the slightly over-damped rubberised plinth (designed when the T/T was sold to be used in dance clubs) is the cause of that, and so would only likely be cured if the motor unit was housed in a different style of plinth.

That's a step too far for me though (as it'd be a pretty big job), especially given that the soundstaging issue is only slight, and so not a major problem.

However, that's why the performance of SP10s is so plinth-dependent, and in that respect the 1210 is no different. In the final analysis, once you've successfully upgraded everything else on a 1200 or 1210, the sound will ultimately be governed by the limitations of the plinth.

Marco.

[RobbieGong]

Yup, same with mine. I'm pretty sure that the slightly over-damped rubberised plinth (designed when the T/T was used in dance clubs) is the cause of that, and so would only likely be cured if the motor unit was housed in a different style of plinth.

That's a step too far for me though (as it'd be a pretty big job), especially given that the soundstaging issue is only slight, and so not a major problem.

That's why though, the performance of SP10s is so plinth-dependent, and in that respect the 1210 is no different. In the final analysis, once you've successfully upgraded everything else on a 1200 or 1210, the sound will ultimately be governed by the limitations of the plinth.

Marco.

Defo on all counts.
Ive toyed with the idea of an SP10 on and off over the years and thats the area I sensed needs to be right.
There's a heck of a lot of torquey motor that needs to be housed with thought and care in order to strike the right balance of isolation, damping and sonic rightness in terms of material(s) used - not as easy to nail as one might think.

[Marco]

Defo not, which is why I'm leaving well alone!

Marco.

[Markiii]

Yup, same with mine. I'm pretty sure that the slightly over-damped rubberised plinth (designed when the T/T was used in dance clubs) is the cause of that, and so would only likely be cured if the motor unit was housed in a different style of plinth.

That's a step too far for me though (as it'd be a pretty big job), especially given that the soundstaging issue is only slight, and so not a major problem.

That's why though, the performance of SP10s is so plinth-dependent, and in that respect the 1210 is no different. In the final analysis, once you've successfully upgraded everything else on a 1200 or 1210, the sound will ultimately be governed by the limitations of the plinth.

Marco.

not saying you are wrong. But I'm curious as to why you think the plinth differences are responsible for the soundstage? If asked I'd have guessed arm and cartridge would make more difference. But I have no reason for that other than gut feel tbh

[Jac Hawk]

Short answer: YES! [In the areas where the Technics excels].

*But*, it'll sound like an SL-1210, with all the traits of a good direct-drive T/T, not an Orbe, which presents music quite differently and has its own enviable traits, which through design, NO Technics, however well-modded can emulate, let alone "see off".

Sorry to throw the cat back in among the pigeons, but things are never quite that simple!

Marco.

Well said mate, it's like trying to say what's better between apples and pears, they both are fruit but they taste different, it all depends what YOU like