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Thread: What's the purpose of a preamp?

  1. #51
    Join Date: Dec 2014

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    Quote Originally Posted by Simon_LDT View Post
    They are made by the same guy/company. The Hattor are the premium line of passives, hence the higher prices and more bling cases.
    Indeed - that kind of dawned on me later this afternoon as I was out walking, but thanks for the confirmation. Must say I definitely prefer the less 'blingy' versions (i.e. the Khozmos)

  2. #52
    Join Date: Aug 2009

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    Well, at the end of the day, all that matters about what is 'accurate', is what you hear that's considered as better... We've been here many times before!

    However, it was you yourself who wrote earlier:



    *You* chose that language, when making your statement, so I guess it's up to you how you define "sound slightly soft" and "loses a bit of the leading edge", and in comparison with what...

    Marco.
    In comparison with the best active pre-amp I have heard which is Barry's Mark Levinson.

    I don't recall hearing another active pre-amp that I would swap my passive for, lets put it that way.

    It isn't easy to describe sounds in words but necessary on an audio forum, so I would expect that to be taken in good faith rather than used as an example of faulty logic. I stand by my assertion that the 'softening' can be ameliorated by careful matching. For e.g the Tisbury passive I found to be very soft, unacceptably so, yet other people have not found that to be the case in their systems.

    Should also point out that people using an integrated amp may very well be listening to a passive pre-amp although they are completely unaware of it. Do you think you could identify which integrateds use a passive pre just by listening to them? It wouldn't be easy would it?
    Current Lash Up:

    TEAC VRDS 701T > Sony TAE1000ESD > Krell KSA50S > JM Labs Focal Electra 926.

  3. #53
    Join Date: Aug 2009

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    Quote Originally Posted by montesquieu View Post
    Yes to be fair, 'harsh' is probably the wrong word. 'Unattractive' is probably more like it. Or perhaps 'stark'. It's hard to get warmed up to the sound in the way a nice tube preamp does the business. .
    For me it (and using a digital source) it sounds closer to the 'control room' sound. So I'd agree it can be 'stark'. That's the sort of sound I go for, personally, although I'll grant that I tend to be in the minority. For me the appeal is not the cheapness since if I was unhappy with my passive I could afford to buy a top end pre on the secondary market, and I would. I listen to enough music to justify the cost.

    And having compared my passive to top end passives and actives I've not heard sufficient improvement to think it is worth bothering to change it. In fact only the ML came across as slightly better, the rest were either indistinguishable or just different.

    Should point out all my comments reference a digital source. I find a good passive eliminates the 'glare' people blame on digital but which I suspect is actually caused by the ropiness of most active pre-amps. Vinyl seems to be unaffected by this, for reasons I can only guess at (at the moment, I'm working on it. Somebody, somewhere certainly already knows why this is).
    Current Lash Up:

    TEAC VRDS 701T > Sony TAE1000ESD > Krell KSA50S > JM Labs Focal Electra 926.

  4. #54
    Join Date: Feb 2013

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    Not heard a passive that has been as good as the actives ive heard, but there are many on both sides of fence ive not heard.
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  5. #55
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

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    Quote Originally Posted by Macca View Post
    In comparison with the best active pre-amp I have heard which is Barry's Mark Levinson.

    I don't recall hearing another active pre-amp that I would swap my passive for, lets put it that way.
    Not also the Croft? You seemed to love it every time you've heard it

    It isn't easy to describe sounds in words but necessary on an audio forum, so I would expect that to be taken in good faith rather than used as an example of faulty logic. I stand by my assertion that the 'softening' can be ameliorated by careful matching.
    Then we'll have to agree to disagree [and i'm with Anthony here], particularly if the "softening" concerned is as a result of signal degradation, which I contend it is.

    Marco.
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & reg mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat/Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight/Isonoe feet & boots/Ortofon RS-212D/Denon DL-103GL in Denon PCL-300 headshell with Funk Firm Houdini/Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp/Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

    CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.

    Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new, by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from the TCD-420a. Also with matching TM4 Norway microphones.

    Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. LDR Stereo Coffee. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.

    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

    Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.

    Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.


    Protect your HUMAN RIGHTS and REFUSE ANY *MANDATORY* VACCINE FOR COVID-19!

    Also **SAY NO** to unjust 'vaccine passports' or certificates, which are totally incompatible with a FREE society!!!


  6. #56
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 110,012
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    Quote Originally Posted by Macca View Post
    And having compared my passive to top end passives and actives I've not heard sufficient improvement to think it is worth bothering to change it. In fact only the ML came across as slightly better, the rest were either indistinguishable or just different.
    I think you'd change your mind pretty quickly on that if you heard the ML in question, or the Croft, in your system. However, that's one we can visit at the bake-off we discussed.

    Marco.
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & reg mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat/Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight/Isonoe feet & boots/Ortofon RS-212D/Denon DL-103GL in Denon PCL-300 headshell with Funk Firm Houdini/Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp/Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

    CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.

    Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new, by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from the TCD-420a. Also with matching TM4 Norway microphones.

    Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. LDR Stereo Coffee. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.

    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

    Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.

    Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.


    Protect your HUMAN RIGHTS and REFUSE ANY *MANDATORY* VACCINE FOR COVID-19!

    Also **SAY NO** to unjust 'vaccine passports' or certificates, which are totally incompatible with a FREE society!!!


  7. #57
    Join Date: Aug 2009

    Location: Staffordshire, England

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    I'm Martin.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    Not also the Croft? You seemed to love it every time you've heard it



    Then we'll have to agree to disagree [and i'm with Anthony here], particularly if the "softening" concerned is as a result of signal degradation, which I contend it is.

    Marco.

    Your Croft is very good indeed, but I have not preferred it in the 3 times we have baked off now - it's different but not preferable (to me). The ML I have not baked off against but it does the job exactly the way I prefer it done. I don't need to hear it in my own system to be sure of that. Also you can buy the ML which is not the case with your Croft, as isn't really a Croft anymore, is it?
    Current Lash Up:

    TEAC VRDS 701T > Sony TAE1000ESD > Krell KSA50S > JM Labs Focal Electra 926.

  8. #58
    montesquieu Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by Macca View Post
    For me it (and using a digital source) it sounds closer to the 'control room' sound. So I'd agree it can be 'stark'. That's the sort of sound I go for, personally, although I'll grant that I tend to be in the minority.
    Having been in control rooms, not as an audio engineer but as an occasional session musician in my youth, I'd say a control room is a workplace and would not typically provide the sort of sound I would want in my living room. Any more than I'd want my kitchen to resemble an operating theatre. But I guess it takes all sorts.

  9. #59
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 110,012
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

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    Quote Originally Posted by montesquieu View Post
    Having been in control rooms, not as an audio engineer but as an occasional session musician in my youth, I'd say a control room is a workplace and would not typically provide the sort of sound I would want in my living room.
    Me neither, *unless* that's how the recording in question is meant to sound. All I want is to extract, as faithfully as possible, the musical information embedded onto whatever source material it is I'm listening to, with as little 'signature' as possible, of the equipment used, superimposed onto that sound

    Marco.
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & reg mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat/Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight/Isonoe feet & boots/Ortofon RS-212D/Denon DL-103GL in Denon PCL-300 headshell with Funk Firm Houdini/Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp/Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

    CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.

    Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new, by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from the TCD-420a. Also with matching TM4 Norway microphones.

    Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. LDR Stereo Coffee. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.

    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

    Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.

    Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.


    Protect your HUMAN RIGHTS and REFUSE ANY *MANDATORY* VACCINE FOR COVID-19!

    Also **SAY NO** to unjust 'vaccine passports' or certificates, which are totally incompatible with a FREE society!!!


  10. #60
    Join Date: Aug 2009

    Location: Staffordshire, England

    Posts: 37,786
    I'm Martin.

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    Quote Originally Posted by montesquieu View Post
    Having been in control rooms, not as an audio engineer but as an occasional session musician in my youth, I'd say a control room is a workplace and would not typically provide the sort of sound I would want in my living room. Any more than I'd want my kitchen to resemble an operating theatre. But I guess it takes all sorts.
    Completely agree it is entirely down to what the individual wants. (Incidentally I like 'operating theatre' style kitchens too ).
    Current Lash Up:

    TEAC VRDS 701T > Sony TAE1000ESD > Krell KSA50S > JM Labs Focal Electra 926.

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