Attenuators yes or no ?

[Mike Reed]

Tuners can often sound very loud, but it isn't because the output voltage is any higher than, say, a CD player - it's because the broadcasters compress the signal so much in order to keep the average signal up near maximum all the time. The commercial stations are all trying to make their station louder than the competition so it can be heard in a car above road/traffic noise. It increases the number of listeners and therefore advertisers.

Output voltages do differ, though. My NAT 01's output is very low, my old 80's Technics phase lock loop thingy slightly (but only slightly) higher but the valved Leak Troughline I'm currently borrowing is even higher; by quite a margin, according to the meters on my pre. All on R3, which, with R4, is the only station to my mind which is relatively unsullied by compression nasties. Having said that, Classic FM has improved in this respect over the last few years, but it ain't R3 !

[Mike Reed]

I should say that the luxman does have variable output rca’s on the back which I don’t use.

I can understand why, as fixed outputs nearly always improve on variable. However, in your case it might be worth trying those for a while rather than trying to attenuate the fixed.

[Joe]

I've always found that attenuators have a 'deadening' or 'flattening' effect on the sound, so I never use them.

[walpurgis]

I've always found that attenuators have a 'deadening' or 'flattening' effect on the sound, so I never use them.

I agree. It's not a severe effect, but it is there.

[Mike Reed]

You're not the only people to believe this,.....

I'm as yet unbiased, but am currently using RCA in-line attenuators on my CDP input for the first time. Maybe the theory can be inviolable on a technical level and even a practical one, but you are adding moveable connections, whereas in circuitry they'd be soldered in. If there is sonic deterioration, it might be down to this aspect rather than the attenuation itself. Sounded good when I tried -10 dB for a few CDs, but the jury's still out as it's not an A-B testing difference anyway.

[Barry]

You're not the only people to believe this, but attenuators are, in principle at least, only voltage dividers. Voltage dividers are used throughout audio amplifiers and throughout the rest of the electronics world. If voltage dividers can't be relied on to do what they should, the foundation on which the whole of electronics is built is wrong. How does any amplifier work if voltage dividers don't work? I can guarantee that 99% of forum members have amplifiers that rely on voltage dividers to work.

+1

Unless one is using an amplifier whereby the volume control varies the amount of feedback, in the vast majority of amplifiers, the volume control is a passive attenuator.

[struth]

You're not the only people to believe this, but attenuators are, in principle at least, only voltage dividers. Voltage dividers are used throughout audio amplifiers and throughout the rest of the electronics world. If voltage dividers can't be relied on to do what they should, the foundation on which the whole of electronics is built is wrong. How does any amplifier work if voltage dividers don't work? I can guarantee that 99% of forum members have amplifiers that rely on voltage dividers to work.

i agree, but ive also heard ill effects from using external attenuators in line. No idea why

[Yomanze]

i agree, but ive also heard ill effects from using external attenuators in line. No idea why

Must be to do with impedance and resistance? For me these things seem to suck the life out my system (in the signal path), and so I prefer to keep impedance as low as possible.

[andyrlb]

The cheap 12Db ones I have ( Harrison Labs, maybe) make very little difference, I have some Rothwell 20db coming soon so I’ll give them a go and see what happens.
I’ve since tried the tuner through my dac and that has made no difference to the volume levels.
I can live with the low level ( high output) but wonder if I could be getting more from the amp even at slightly higher levels .
Incidentally the vu meters show 0.3-0.5 watts at this listening level .


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[Mike Reed]

Must be to do with impedance and resistance? For me these things seem to suck the life out my system (in the signal path), and so I prefer to keep impedance as low as possible.

As I mentioned in my post above, the extra connections (by increasing impedance) may be the culprit rather than the attenuation itself.