On the demise of the British pub

[Macca]

Generally speaking though, it'd be my parents, grandmother and assorted aunts and uncles boozing and talking the hind legs off several donkeys in the dining room whilst us young 'uns would be left to our own devices. If we made too much noise we were told to 'play outside'. The adults weren't interested in what we had to say, and vice-versa.

It was a good system and it worked well.

[Marco]

Bit busy at the moment, chaps, to contribute properly. However, some of today's posts have been interesting. For me, Dave (and also Alan with his earlier comments, which I'll get to later) hits the nail on the head here:

We, my sister and i were taken to restaurants and pubs since we were very young. Those places to us were adult places, we would be on our best behaviour . My mum and dad would tell us off if we got a tiny bit loud etc.
Recently in a pub, not a purpose family pub, just a normal boozer. Three loud young brats running about, ran into me whilst leaving the bar with a couple of pints, sploshed a fair bit of beer on to the floor ( could have been worse), bloody parents said "oi mind the children"...... I had words with them, but of course their kids can do no wrong in their eyes. Thats the problem.

I completely, 110% agree!!

So what do you think has caused that problem? If I'd behaved that way, when I was a kid, my dad would've given me cuff behind the ear and apologised profusely to the person concerned, as he was very strict about teaching me good manners and how I should behave in public places.

Therefore, what's changed since in the attitude of parents, who seem both incapable of disciplining their children, when necessary, or seeing them do wrong? I've got my own thoughts on that, which I'll discuss later.

Marco.

[Firebottle]

The problem is the kids of the 60/70's generation were given carte blanche to get away with anything, as the antidote to the strict parental control of their parents.
Then the kids of kids came along, then the kids of kids of kids and the whole things FUBAR.

[Marco]

The problem is the kids of the 60/70's generation were given carte blanche to get away with anything, as the antidote to the strict parental control of their parents.
Then the kids of kids came along, then the kids of kids of kids and the whole things FUBAR.

I'd buy that argument, were it not for the fact that I was a kid of the 60/70s, and fundamentally NOT "given carte blanche to get away with anything" - far from it!

Marco.

P.S Come on guys, let's have some more feedback on this. I'm sure you've all got plenty of views on the matter!

[Macca]

Born 1968 we were brought up to be well-behaved and only speak when we were spoken to. like Joe say we were not interested in the adults and they were not interested in us. That is a psychologically healthy situation.

When I met up with one of my brothers and his 2 children the other week I was pleased to note that my nephew refused to come and say hello and instead stayed sat watching the telly. He will grow up to be a capable, balanced individual.

[Pigmy Pony]

I think Alan is at least 10 years out with his theory.

I was born in 1958 (first birth in Preston that year) and so was a child of the sixties. Boredom was never a word ever used, and the only times I ever felt boredom was when my dad would leave me in the van for an hour or so when he was out seeing customers and he had nowhere else to put me.

We made our own entertainment, always outside regardless of the time of year. My friends were never allowed into our house, and I never got to see the inside of theirs. Teatime and a bit of telly in the evenings were the only time spent with parents. I made my own breakfast and got myself off to school.

As for 'quality time' with parents, I remember being taken to the cinema about 3 or 4 times. Lady and the Tramp, Zulu, Carry on Up the Khyber, and that was it. I think we had a day trip to Blackpool or Lytham once a year.

Sounds a bit bleak, but actually it was great. And we really didn't know any different.

We weren't angels, but we understood and accepted the rules: get caught and you get a thick ear. which happened frequently, from the local copper, the farmer, or the slipper from the headmaster.

Something must have happened in the eighties some child abuse probably, and the knee-jerk reaction has been to do away with all forms of corporal punishment. So kids were safe from any physical chastisement - and don't they know it! They can be shitheads to their little hearts' content, safe in the knowledge there ain't a damn thing we can do to them.

I'm betting that child molesting is no more commonplace these days, but the availability of information and increased reporting makes it seem so. Parents are now scared to let their precious bundles out of their sight, and to combat the inevitable boredom the kids now feel as they're pretty much stuck with their parents 24/7, the parents indulge them far more than is good for them, giving kids an inflated sense of their own importance.

When these kids 'grow up' and finally see that the world is largely a shit place compared to the bubble they were brought up in, they will develop all kinds of mental and nervous problems. Say hello to the Snowflake Generation. And then they'll have kids of their own, and these kids will have the same anodyne upbringing thanks to their fucked up parents.

Of course there'll be exceptions - my daughters are little princesses!

[Macca]

We made our own entertainment, always outside regardless of the time of year. My friends were never allowed into our house, and I never got to see the inside of theirs. Teatime and a bit of telly in the evenings were the only time spent with parents. I made my own breakfast and got myself off to school.

Sounds familiar, although our holidays were in a rented flat in Llandudno. Really basic place in a back street but we loved it and as you say we knew no different. One year the old man got a few quid as the share of an Aunties' house and we went to Majorca for two weeks and stayed in a proper hotel. Which was good but it was back to Llandudno the next year and no-one complained.


Weekends we did not dream of waking up my mam and dad, you'd go downstairs and make your own tea and toast and watch the telly. I was doing that from about 6 years old. A friend of mine her lad is 8 and she won't dream of letting him near the kettle or the toaster - we used to cook our toast under the gas grill that you had to light with a match! Had to climb up on a stool to reach it.

Never a problem because we were independent and capable from a very young age whereas this lad of my friends can do nothing for himself. When he gets up on a Saturday morning she has to get up as well because he is totally incapable of acting for himself. Round here 150 years ago he would already be finished with school age six and be out doing hard manual work 6 days a week 12 hours a day. And he can't even boil the kettle.

Like you say, snowflake generation.

[Joe]

Every generation thinks the world's going to Hell in a handcart, and every generation dates the decline from just after their own childhood. This thread is a perfect illustration of that.

[Barry]

Every generation thinks the world's going to Hell in a handcart, and every generation dates the decline from just after their own childhood. This thread is a perfect illustration of that.

Not me! IMO the world started to "go to Hell in a handcart" ten years ago, but rate of descent is accelerating at an alarming rate.

[Barry]

Location, atmosphere and it depends what you are looking for at any given moment. I might find it great to go to an Aberdeen dockside pub with my uncle Tony for a boozy night soaking up the atmosphere of the dockers and dodging the prostitutes

Other times I want a good country, family friendly pub with a nice garden to catch a bit of sunshine

I'm not a smoker now but I can see that the smoking ban didnt help many pubs. Ive just seen too many pubs with lazy owners who cater mainly for a local estate. They are just not very welcoming and the atmosphere is a bit crap to sit and enjoy a drink with a girlfriend.

I'm at an age now where I prefer a quieter bar without young lads mouthing off at the pool table. I can't enjoy a drink with the local dickheads coming in. A lot of pubs seem tied in with a brewery chain which confuses things.

I will now go out of my way to find a good pub.

I think people are just spending less on going to pubs. I go back to my earlier point that many pubs seem depressing and badly run. I wonder how they are making money and remain open.

Good post Martin.

Sums up my feelings exactly. I don't really care if the pub is 'posh', or whether is one of the more 'characterful' pubs described above. All I ask is a decent beer that is well looked after and is served by someone at the bar who is welcoming, helpful and polite.

As to the clientele, if they choose to give me the 'cold shoulder' as a newcomer and stranger, or are intimidating, well that is their problem - I will just drink up and be on my way: I detest pubs that are run by the locals.