On the demise of the British pub

[Marco]

I feel that many pubs deserve to close down. Spoons has the cheapest beer but its like drinking in a school hall

Exactly, so it's a completely soulless experience, and the exact OPPOSITE of what I'm looking for in a pub. Plus, there's a completely uninspiring choice of beers (all the boring and unimaginative 'usual suspects'), not particularly treated well, which completely turns me off, and so I couldn't give a monkeys how cheap it is, you won't ever see me in such places!

Marco.

[Marco]

pubs are like forums. need to be run well for them to thrive...

Spot on, Grant, and in that respect they need to be run by folks with passion and enthusiasm for that they're doing. It also helps if they have an outgoing personality, and are not simply bland, boring 'non-entities'

Some of the 'zombies' you see, in that respect, working behind bars, makes you wonder why on earth they're there in the first place, as they clearly have no passion or enthusiasm for what they're doing!

Marco.

[Joe]

I rarely go to pubs these days, but not all pubs in the 'good old days' were much cop. Many many years ago, when I lived in That London, there was a pub just up the road from where I lived, but I never went there, as I preferred to drink either in Central London, or in Blackheath, which wasn't too far to get to and was a 'nicer' area than my immediate locality. One evening, when it was pissing down with rain, I decided to give it a try, and went in there with a couple of mates. No-one else in the pub was much under sixty, and they all stared at us silently as we went in, and continued to stare at us silently until we finished our drinks and went somewhere more hospitable. Also, on a freezing cold November night, the only heating was a one-bar electric fire.

Another time, we were in Brixton, visiting a friend's brother. We asked if there were any good pubs nearby, as none of the rest of us knew the place. He said 'Let's go to my local, then'. He said he's buy the first round, and asked for our orders. At that time I mostly drank 'shorts', so I said I'd have a vodka and orange. 'Not in this pub you won't' he said. 'You'd better have what I'm having; a pint of Guinness.' It was only then I realised that everyone else in the pub had Irish accents, and that the Irish tricolour was hanging up behind the bar

[Sherwood]

I rarely go to pubs these days, but not all pubs in the 'good old days' were much cop. Many many years ago, when I lived in That London, there was a pub just up the road from where I lived, but I never went there, as I preferred to drink either in Central London, or in Blackheath, which wasn't too far to get to and was a 'nicer' area than my immediate locality. One evening, when it was pissing down with rain, I decided to give it a try, and went in there with a couple of mates. No-one else in the pub was much under sixty, and they all stared at us silently as we went in, and continued to stare at us silently until we finished our drinks and went somewhere more hospitable. Also, on a freezing cold November night, the only heating was a one-bar electric fire.

Another time, we were in Brixton, visiting a friend's brother. We asked if there were any good pubs nearby, as none of the rest of us knew the place. He said 'Let's go to my local, then'. He said he's buy the first round, and asked for our orders. At that time I mostly drank 'shorts', so I said I'd have a vodka and orange. 'Not in this pub you won't' he said. 'You'd better have what I'm having; a pint of Guinness.' It was only then I realised that everyone else in the pub had Irish accents, and that the Irish tricolour was hanging up behind the bar

.... and your point is?

[The Black Adder]

I've lived next door to a village pub.

The landlords that Marston's got in to run it were simply conned in to running it by the brewery. They told them that the pub turns over well in excess of £500,000 per annum.

The landlord of the most successful pub down the street simply laughed at it. No way, but that's Marston's for you.

The people who took it over were people who seemed like loners to couples with 3 week old babies. None of them had a clue what to do, and none of them had passion to run it.

In the end a guy ran it and 6 months later he ran out of credit with Marston's and they stopped delivering. The pub shut and he started doing drugs instead... he was basically squatting in there for a year as they couldn't evict him.

So... to me the brewery is just as at fault for the closures of local pubs... they drive a hard bargain, they con people in to running a business and then just leave them if it all goes wrong.

Seen it happen so many times and people wonder why they shut.

[Marco]

.... and your point is?

Dunno... If you're a young guy (as I suspect Joe was at the time), you might not want to drink in an old man's pub, especially one full of unsociable morons?



Marco.

[Marco]

I've lived next door to a village pub.

The landlords that Marston's got in to run it were simply conned in to running it by the brewery. They told them that the pub turns over well in excess of £500,000 per annum.

The landlord of the most successful pub down the street simply laughed at it. No way, but that's Marston's for you.

The people who took it over were people who seemed like loners to couples with 3 week old babies. None of them had a clue what to do, and none of them had passion to run it.

In the end a guy ran it and 6 months later he ran out of credit with Marston's and they stopped delivering. The pub shut and he started doing drugs instead... he was basically squatting in there for a year as they couldn't evict him.

So... to me the brewery is just as at fault for the closures of local pubs... they drive a hard bargain, they con people in to running a business and then just leave them if it all goes wrong.

Seen it happen so many times and people wonder why they shut.

Excellent point, Jo, and too true. However, loners and such like (anyone who isn't switched on enough), shouldn't be given the job in the first place.

For me, unless you have a friendly, outgoing and gregarious personality, know how to look after yourself and aren't easily intimidated, are 100% focussed on making the pub concerned a success, and have the time, willingness to work like a dog, and business acumen necessary for that to happen, then forget all about running a pub...

Being a pub landlord simply isn't for social misfits, shy little wallflowers, or couples who are 'nappied up to the max'. It's for people who are devoted/dedicated to the cause, and willing to make it their life's main purpose, until such times as that's no longer necessary. Otherwise, forget it!

Marco.

[Sherwood]

Dunno... If you're a young guy (as I suspect Joe was at the time), you might not want to drink in an old man's pub, especially one full of unsociable morons?



Marco.

If I were not in a generous mood I would suggest his post is both ageist and racist. What flag would you expect to see in an Irish pub in London and what accent would you expect Irish drinkers to have. If I were in an Irish pub, I would probably be drinking Guinness on the assumption that they had a trained cellar man who knew how to manage it. The suggestion that an Irish barman would be irritated by someone ordering spirits is ridiculous. I also doubt if any clientele in any London pub would pay any attention to strangers coming in the door unless they were causing a ruckus. This sounds more like some 1960s Hammer Horror scene set in Transylvania than the London I grew up in.

Geoff

[Marco]

If I were in an Irish pub, I would probably be drinking Guinness on the assumption that they had a trained cellar man who knew how to manage it. The suggestion that an Irish barman would be irritated by someone ordering spirits is ridiculous. I also doubt if any clientele in any London pub would pay any attention to strangers coming in the door unless they were causing a ruckus. This sounds more like some 1960s Hammer Horror scene set in Transylvania than the London I grew up in.

Well, firstly I don't think Joe's lying, because he's not the type, so I don't doubt what he said happened. I've also experienced the same thing myself, although not in London. The UK is full of rather cliquey little pubs, often located in small towns or villages and housing estates, where if your face isn't known, then the regulars stare and wonder who you are. That's not at all unusual.

Secondly, I don't like Guinness, so no matter what the barman thought, I'd insist on drinking what *I* wanted to drink, providing it was available, and if it was a vodka and orange, then that's what I'd be having, or I'd be out the door pronto, and drinking elsewhere!

No-one tells me what I can or cannot drink in a free country.

Marco.

[Sherwood]

Well, firstly I don't think Joe's lying, because he's not the type, so I don't doubt what he said happened. I've also experienced the same thing myself, although not in London. The UK is full of rather cliquey little pubs, often located in small towns or villages and housing estates, where if your face isn't known, then the regulars stare and wonder who you are. That's not at all unusual.

Secondly, I don't like Guinness, so no matter what the barman thought, I'd insist on drinking what *I* wanted to drink, providing it was available, and if it was a vodka and orange, then that's what I'd be having, or I'd be out the door pronto!

No-one tells me what I can or cannot drink in a free country.

Marco.

Perhaps his recollection is faulty. No pub in London would give a monkey's what a customer ordered and vodka and orange is hardly exotic.

I do like Guinness but only ever drink it in pubs with properly trained bar staff.

I don't know of any London pub that I frequented that would notice what planet a customer came from let alone pay attention to their age. I do know of many pubs though that would have unruly, loud or rude customers out on their ears in an instant.

Seems to me that this post says more about Jo and the people he was with than the pub in question.

Geoff