Solid state preamp grain compared to valves

[Firebottle]

Ha indeed, but I'm not imagining it.

You must come down and check it out.

[hifinutt]

agreed with that tony totally

[Macca]

Ha indeed, but I'm not imagining it.

You must come down and check it out.

Yes, I must. I can get a few days off coming up next few months? Pm your address Alan and I'll see how easy you are to get to.

[DSJR]

Simple, Lenco's rumble through the stylus in the vertical plane as in the mono days, we only used horizontal stylus movement. a Lenco in stereo isn't always a quiet beast.Fitting one into a massier plinth may well take the noise figures down as stray vibrations may possibly be sunk into the plinth better? Back when the G99 was a current model and when we didn't have substantial bases, Hi Fi Sound magazine tested it and found cutting the mains input voltage knocked several db (audible) off the rumble and noise figures. I don't have the scan of the review group test sadly - they also did the 401, TD124 and Sony TTS3000 which won that little measurement battle.

As for active vs passive preamps, it's up to the amp design really I think. The geriatric amps I use don't like passives at all and are as quiet as a mouse with the matching active preamp. The other amps I have a little to do with still, sound fine with the passive and at all volume settings... Valve vs solid state preamps? Depends on the expertise of the designer IMO... Just my take.

[Bigman80]

How would you know of your amp was suitable to be used with either?

Other than trying it that is.

[DSJR]

Turn the volume up fairly high and listen for HUMMMMM (in my case and this is irrespective of earthing arrangements). With other scenarios, the interconnects should I believe, be as low capacitance and short as reasonably possible (a metre or so seems fine with good cables) to prevent the frequency response being unduly affected. Your mileage may well vary though and while it shouldn't work properly (it doesn't really I'm told) the Krell amp Macca now has could be used successfully with a passive pre where this particular amp is balanced right from the input I gather, one leg needing to be tied to 'earth' if used with standard phono connectors, let alone a passive attenuator as well... So, as said above, I reckon you need to try it for yourself and see how the mysic is affected or not - (I used a variable output source to see what my different preamps did when daisy chained in, so am happy with my compromises). No hard and fast rules though.

[Bigman80]

Turn the volume up fairly high and listen for HUMMMMM (in my case and this is irrespective of earthing arrangements). With other scenarios, the interconnects should I believe, be as low capacitance and short as reasonably possible (a metre or so seems fine with good cables) to prevent the frequency response being unduly affected. Your mileage may well vary though and while it shouldn't work properly (it doesn't really I'm told) the Krell amp Macca now has could be used successfully with a passive pre where this particular amp is balanced right from the input I gather, one leg needing to be tied to 'earth' if used with standard phono connectors, let alone a passive attenuator as well... So, as said above, I reckon you need to try it for yourself and see how the mysic is affected or not - (I used a variable output source to see what my different preamps did when daisy chained in, so am happy with my compromises). No hard and fast rules though.

I'll give that a try, Dave. When I tried my DCB1 with the Monoblocks, it was as quiet as a grave yard. I'll try it with the Monarchy and see what happens.

Top stuff mate.

[Marco]

Valve vs solid state preamps? Depends on the expertise of the designer IMO... Just my take.

And mine. The latter is ultimately what matters, not measurements!

Marco.

[Marco]

Missed this earlier...

Could we cope with true realism? For me, mostly no. I've heard playback in the studio, it's stunning but would I want to come home at night and relax to that? No, I wouldn't.

Defo, I would. It's *precisely* what I seek from my system, and have striven as much as possible to achieve... In Tony's well-known realism scale, I've always been a '10'!

I 'relax', and indeed derive most enjoyment from my system, when to my ears it reproduces music in the most lifelike way possible. I don't want anything deliberately 'smoothed off'.

Therefore, when I want to chill out, I keep the volume low, and simply revel in the realistic tone/texture of voices and instruments, and information retrieval at that volume, and when I want 'true realism', I crank it up, so that I achieve the correct level of dynamic impact to convey that effect (as far as possible). Simples!

Marco.

[Marco]

The LDR versions offer a better all round preservative imho if I had to use one it would be this type of passive.

Indeed, which is why I'm currently having one built to a high spec. So why do LDRs not lack 'drive' or suck the life out of the music, in the way some other passives do, when used with a sub-optimal power amp? In that respect, LDRs don't seem to care!

That question, btw, is directed at all 'techies' present.

Every-time I have place a passive pre amplifier in my own system, it takes a backwards step in transparency, natural pace (not artificial naim inspired falseness), stage depth and involvement. I have personally had many passive designs over the years including some ultra exotic Japanese uber constructed wonders which cost kidney transplant amounts, beautifully sweet, delicate, nice layering and fluidity in these area's you would struggle to get close even with valves, yet it was like watching a world class painter at work through a first floor window, not all of the perspective was apparent.

Exactly my experience, although only up to silver-wired throughout, Music First levels of passive, nothing much more exotic than that, but they've all sounded as you've described: beautifully sweet and open, detailed to a fault, but compared with the best actives, valve or SS, lack 'urgency'/drive, thus ultimately eroding musical involvement - the often elusive and defining factor that makes recorded music 'come alive'.

And with TVCs, as good as they are, I can always hear the sound of the transformers, a bit like with SUTs in comparison with the best MC head amps. The latter usually always have less of a defined sonic signature.

I would agree with Marco on one point though (I know hell freezes over twice this year!), passives upto £2K are generally better than most equivalent active pre's, there are always exceptions, though it is a valid point...

Au contraire, mon ami... These days, I think there's far more we agree on, than disagree

Yes, I'd rather have a well-designed passive, at any price really, than a budget active preamp, especially SS, as in my experience they make music sound as rough as a badger's arse. Some imported Chinese items, however, can surprise.

The channel separation measured on the pre amplifier I use is 0.00025%-0.0005% @ 1khz and 1v even at maximum out (40V I know no one will ever use that level!, oh maybe Marco ) is still 0.093% THD

Ha - and what exactly are you implying, sir?

Use your ears, in your system that is the only way YOU can decide if it is right for you not Joe blogs forum buddy group.

I agree, but I also think forums such as this can sometimes be useful for taking the advice of those whose ears you trust, when you aren't in a position to hear something for yourself. In that respect, if you're a regular contributor/reader, you get to know those who like a similar type of sound.

Marco.