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Thread: Solid state preamp grain compared to valves

  1. #211
    Join Date: Apr 2012

    Location: N E Kent

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    I'm Geoff.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Haselsh1 View Post
    The one that sticks in my mind the clearest of all was the Creek passive that I owned around 2004/5. I used it alongside my WAD KLP1 which was far superior in terms of sound with the Creek being very flat and lifeless. All of the dynamic excitement had just gone from the music but unfortunately I cannot remember the power amp I was using.
    I tried one very briefly. I found it the same. Grim!

    My twenty quid Little Bear passive from China is vastly superior.

  2. #212
    Join Date: Jun 2015

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    I'm Lawrence.

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    Wow my initial question has invoked a long and wide ranging discussion. Given the number of people who find a similar result to me, the conclusion must be that there is some ill effect from most SS pre amps that could be described as grain.

  3. #213
    Join Date: Apr 2011

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    I'm Robert.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lawrence001 View Post
    Wow my initial question has invoked a long and wide ranging discussion. Given the number of people who find a similar result to me, the conclusion must be that there is some ill effect from most SS pre amps that could be described as grain.
    Yeah 23 pages is one pretty long discussion
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  4. #214
    Join Date: Apr 2012

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    I'm Geoff.

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    Getting to the point. I don't know what each person may think of as 'grain', but every transistor pre-amp I've tried has had a touch of sheen at the top end (compared to other types). Not necessarily much and not enough generally to detract from the listening experience. I have had the occasional valve pre-amp that did the same, but not many, most are silky smooth (sometimes too much so). My current TVC, passive and valve pre-amps are not guilty of this.

  5. #215
    Join Date: Apr 2008

    Location: Cheshire, UK

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    I'm Clive.

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    I think when you hear a preamp or phono stage deliver that chrystal clear treble with no hint of courseness you know what grain is with lesser kit.
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  6. #216
    Join Date: Apr 2015

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    I'm Russell.

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    Years ago, while wondering exactly what my preamp sounded like, I decided to bypass it entirely. I plugged my CD player directly into the amp. No volume control, no anything but my best set of cables.

    It was loud! But not dangerously so. In fact I listened to it for a few hours in this way. The wife wasn’t real happy when she attempted to turn it down. Upon putting my preamp back into the circuit I found that I much preferred the sound with the pre. A budget solid state Adcom. I couldn’t see where it added anything bad to the sound.

    Russell

  7. #217
    Join Date: Feb 2008

    Location: South Wales

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    I'm NotTakingLifeTooSeriouslyTheseDays.

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    Its true, many active preamps have the attenuator at the beginning, and thus attenuate the signal before it goes into a gain stage, this usually means that you keep the fixed resistance of the pot across the source, and then vary the input resistance to the input of the gain stage in the preamp, the gain stage of the preamp is then left wide open to drive the power amp. With a passive, its the same configuration, except you have no extra gain after the attenuator, thus, you're relying on how the front end of the amplifier copes with the somewhat low and varying input resistance [depending on how loud you want to listen] presented to the first gain stage of the amplifier, by the attenuator, this is where IMHO the real problem lies with many passive/amp combinations. In my Soul-mate preamp, I eliminated those variant for that very reason, by putting the switched attenuator between two stages, [single ended in this case] each with a very low output impedance buffer circuit, one to drive the attenuator, and one at the end to drive the power amp, that way, the varying attenuator has no affect on the source output resistance/impedance, or the amplifier input, Also' the whole preamp circuit, including the attenuator is directly coupled. I developed this preamp over 14 years ago now, originally specifically to be partnered with the Soul power amps, however, they have been used in many types of systems over the years, with excellent results, my point being, I was well aware of the problems with both good passives, and conventional actives, and I wanted to eliminate as much as possible the issues associated with both types.
    "Today scientists have substituted mathematics for experiments, and they wander off through equation after equation, and eventually build a structure which has no relation to reality"
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  8. #218
    Join Date: Jan 2008

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    Interesting, Anthony, so is the following the reason why results can be so variable with passives, unless they're used with power amps designed to optimise them (and vice versa):

    Quote Originally Posted by AnthonyTD
    With a passive, its the same configuration, except you have no extra gain after the attenuator, thus, you're relying on how the front end of the amplifier copes with the somewhat low and varying input resistance [depending on how loud you want to listen] presented to the first gain stage of the amplifier, by the attenuator...
    ...and why, if that arrangement is sub-optimal, it can adversely affect the sound in the way I've described?

    Marco.
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  9. #219
    Join Date: Feb 2008

    Location: South Wales

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    Its all very circuit dependant ie; Attenuator, cables, input resistance, impedance, of the power amp etc.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    Interesting, Anthony, so is the following the reason why results can be so variable with passives, unless they're used with power amps designed to optimise them (and vice versa):



    ...and why, if that arrangement is sub-optimal, it can adversely affect the sound in the way I've described?

    Marco.
    "Today scientists have substituted mathematics for experiments, and they wander off through equation after equation, and eventually build a structure which has no relation to reality"
    Nikola Tesla



    Its now a conspiracy theory to believe that the Immune system is capable of doing the job it was designed to do.
    A fish is only as healthy as the water its swimming in ! [Dr Robert Young]


    www.tubedistinctions.co.uk

    Matthew 5:10

  10. #220
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

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    Quote Originally Posted by anthonyTD View Post
    Its all very circuit dependant ie; Attenuator, cables, input resistance, impedance, of the power amp etc.
    Yup, but basically it's the reason why it's not a given that any old passive preamp will work well in any old system. There has to be some thought put into it

    So what I highlighted of yours in my last post, active preamps don't suffer from? I know that they have their own issues, though.

    Marco.
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & reg mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat/Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight/Isonoe feet & boots/Ortofon RS-212D/Denon DL-103GL in Denon PCL-300 headshell with Funk Firm Houdini/Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp/Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

    CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.

    Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new, by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from the TCD-420a. Also with matching TM4 Norway microphones.

    Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. LDR Stereo Coffee. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.

    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

    Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.

    Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.


    Protect your HUMAN RIGHTS and REFUSE ANY *MANDATORY* VACCINE FOR COVID-19!

    Also **SAY NO** to unjust 'vaccine passports' or certificates, which are totally incompatible with a FREE society!!!


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