Location: London/Durham
Posts: 6,869
I'm Lawrence.
Wow my initial question has invoked a long and wide ranging discussion. Given the number of people who find a similar result to me, the conclusion must be that there is some ill effect from most SS pre amps that could be described as grain.
My System:
Amplification - Sansui AU-alpha 707 DR
Turntable - Technics SP10 MK2-Technics EPA-250 Tonearm-Yannis Tome 423.5Plus tonearm cable-Eichmann KLEI Absolute Harmony plugs.
Ortofon Cadenza Black moving coil cartridge-Fritz Gyger S re-tip. Panzerholz plinth.
CDP - Pioneer PD-91
Speakers - Spendor D7 on Soundcare SuperSpikes
QED Silver Spiral speaker cable-airloc banana plugs
Mains - Ultra Pure silver plated un-switched socket-Missing link EPS 500 silver plated plugs-Hi-Fi Tuning gold plated silver ceramic 13 amp fuses
Getting to the point. I don't know what each person may think of as 'grain', but every transistor pre-amp I've tried has had a touch of sheen at the top end (compared to other types). Not necessarily much and not enough generally to detract from the listening experience. I have had the occasional valve pre-amp that did the same, but not many, most are silky smooth (sometimes too much so). My current TVC, passive and valve pre-amps are not guilty of this.
I think when you hear a preamp or phono stage deliver that chrystal clear treble with no hint of courseness you know what grain is with lesser kit.
TT 1 Trans-Fi Salvation with magnetic bearing + Trans-Fi Terminator T3Pro + London Reference
TT 2 Garrard 301 with NWA main bearing + Audiomods Series Six 10.5" + Ortofon 2M Mono SE
Digital Lindemann Bridge + Gustard R26 with LB external clock
Pre and Power Amp EWA M40P + M40A
Bass Amp & DSP Behringer iNuke NU3000DSP x 2
Speakers 1 Bastanis Sagarmatha Duo with twin baffleless 15" bass drivers per side
Speakers 2 MarkaudioSota Viotti Tower
Years ago, while wondering exactly what my preamp sounded like, I decided to bypass it entirely. I plugged my CD player directly into the amp. No volume control, no anything but my best set of cables.
It was loud! But not dangerously so. In fact I listened to it for a few hours in this way. The wife wasn’t real happy when she attempted to turn it down. Upon putting my preamp back into the circuit I found that I much preferred the sound with the pre. A budget solid state Adcom. I couldn’t see where it added anything bad to the sound.
Russell
Its true, many active preamps have the attenuator at the beginning, and thus attenuate the signal before it goes into a gain stage, this usually means that you keep the fixed resistance of the pot across the source, and then vary the input resistance to the input of the gain stage in the preamp, the gain stage of the preamp is then left wide open to drive the power amp. With a passive, its the same configuration, except you have no extra gain after the attenuator, thus, you're relying on how the front end of the amplifier copes with the somewhat low and varying input resistance [depending on how loud you want to listen] presented to the first gain stage of the amplifier, by the attenuator, this is where IMHO the real problem lies with many passive/amp combinations. In my Soul-mate preamp, I eliminated those variant for that very reason, by putting the switched attenuator between two stages, [single ended in this case] each with a very low output impedance buffer circuit, one to drive the attenuator, and one at the end to drive the power amp, that way, the varying attenuator has no affect on the source output resistance/impedance, or the amplifier input, Also' the whole preamp circuit, including the attenuator is directly coupled. I developed this preamp over 14 years ago now, originally specifically to be partnered with the Soul power amps, however, they have been used in many types of systems over the years, with excellent results, my point being, I was well aware of the problems with both good passives, and conventional actives, and I wanted to eliminate as much as possible the issues associated with both types.
"Today scientists have substituted mathematics for experiments, and they wander off through equation after equation, and eventually build a structure which has no relation to reality"
Nikola Tesla
Its now a conspiracy theory to believe that the Immune system is capable of doing the job it was designed to do.
A fish is only as healthy as the water its swimming in ! [Dr Robert Young]
www.tubedistinctions.co.uk
Matthew 5:10
Interesting, Anthony, so is the following the reason why results can be so variable with passives, unless they're used with power amps designed to optimise them (and vice versa):
...and why, if that arrangement is sub-optimal, it can adversely affect the sound in the way I've described?Originally Posted by AnthonyTD
Marco.
Main System
Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & reg mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat/Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight/Isonoe feet & boots/Ortofon RS-212D/Denon DL-103GL in Denon PCL-300 headshell with Funk Firm Houdini/Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.
Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp/Denon AU-310 SUT.
Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.
CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.
Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new, by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from the TCD-420a. Also with matching TM4 Norway microphones.
Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. LDR Stereo Coffee. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.
Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.
Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.
Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.
Protect your HUMAN RIGHTS and REFUSE ANY *MANDATORY* VACCINE FOR COVID-19!
Also **SAY NO** to unjust 'vaccine passports' or certificates, which are totally incompatible with a FREE society!!!
"Today scientists have substituted mathematics for experiments, and they wander off through equation after equation, and eventually build a structure which has no relation to reality"
Nikola Tesla
Its now a conspiracy theory to believe that the Immune system is capable of doing the job it was designed to do.
A fish is only as healthy as the water its swimming in ! [Dr Robert Young]
www.tubedistinctions.co.uk
Matthew 5:10
Yup, but basically it's the reason why it's not a given that any old passive preamp will work well in any old system. There has to be some thought put into it
So what I highlighted of yours in my last post, active preamps don't suffer from? I know that they have their own issues, though.
Marco.
Main System
Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & reg mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat/Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight/Isonoe feet & boots/Ortofon RS-212D/Denon DL-103GL in Denon PCL-300 headshell with Funk Firm Houdini/Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.
Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp/Denon AU-310 SUT.
Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.
CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.
Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new, by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from the TCD-420a. Also with matching TM4 Norway microphones.
Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. LDR Stereo Coffee. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.
Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.
Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.
Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.
Protect your HUMAN RIGHTS and REFUSE ANY *MANDATORY* VACCINE FOR COVID-19!
Also **SAY NO** to unjust 'vaccine passports' or certificates, which are totally incompatible with a FREE society!!!