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Thread: Solid state preamp grain compared to valves

  1. #1
    Join Date: Jun 2015

    Location: London/Durham

    Posts: 6,861
    I'm Lawrence.

    Default Solid state preamp grain compared to valves

    I've tried a few SS active pres and I haven't been able to get on with them, ultimately I find the sound irritating. I've put this down to a slight silicon grain even on good ones (eg. Audio Research). I've also matched them with a few modern SS power amps that seem to smooth out the grain but they make the sound dull and lifeless. I've never had this with valve pre amps (sometimes harshness with cheaper ones or cheap valves, but never the "grain"). Nor with good passives.

    Is it in my head, are my ears/brain sensitive, or is this just the way it is?

    Sent from my BLN-L21 using Tapatalk

  2. #2
    Join Date: Mar 2008

    Location: Galashiels

    Posts: 13,664
    I'm inthescottishmafia.

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    You like what you like, end of really. What I’ve found is that any active pre isn’t really transparent, they all add a little something to the sound. The Slagle AVC I had was better to my ears than any active pre I’ve tried in my system previously, however I’ve sold that as I got hold of a set of Tribute AVC’s which Anthony of BTE Desgns is putting in a nice box for me. I’m hoping these will be even better.
    “Music has always been a matter of energy to me, a question of fuel. Sentimental people call it inspiration, but what they really mean is fuel. I have always needed fuel. I am a serious consumer. On some nights I still believe that a car with the gas needle on empty can run about fifty more miles if you have the right music very loud on the radio”

    Hunter S Thompson

  3. #3
    Bigman80 Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ali Tait View Post
    You like what you like, end of really. What I’ve found is that any active pre isn’t really transparent, they all add a little something to the sound. The Slagle AVC I had was better to my ears than any active pre I’ve tried in my system previously, however I’ve sold that as I got hold of a set of Tribute AVC’s which Anthony of BTE Desgns is putting in a nice box for me. I’m hoping these will be even better.
    The Slagle has an undeniable fluidity. It's a fantastic pre.

    I have the DCB1 preamp now and have a better bass control at the expense at a very very slight loss of that beautiful fluidity. It's as good at the soundstaging and to be honest, it's got a slightly better resolution but it really is nip and tuck.

    As for grain, Not to my ears and I've just swapped to a Monarchy Audio SM-70 and DCB1. Both solid state. It definitely has more bite and grit but I really like that. Like Ali said, it's whatever you like.

  4. #4
    Join Date: Feb 2008

    Location: South Wales

    Posts: 9,151
    I'm NotTakingLifeTooSeriouslyTheseDays.

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    Wide bandwidth, and the ability to be able to drive [properly] the cables, and the front end of what ever power amp your using' these are two very important aspects of a good preamp!
    A...
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  5. #5
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 110,012
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

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    I fully agree, which is where some passives can fall down.

    Marco.
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & reg mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat/Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight/Isonoe feet & boots/Ortofon RS-212D/Denon DL-103GL in Denon PCL-300 headshell with Funk Firm Houdini/Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp/Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

    CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.

    Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new, by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from the TCD-420a. Also with matching TM4 Norway microphones.

    Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. LDR Stereo Coffee. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.

    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

    Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.

    Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.


    Protect your HUMAN RIGHTS and REFUSE ANY *MANDATORY* VACCINE FOR COVID-19!

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  6. #6
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 110,012
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lawrence001 View Post
    I've tried a few SS active pres and I haven't been able to get on with them, ultimately I find the sound irritating. I've put this down to a slight silicon grain even on good ones (eg. Audio Research). I've also matched them with a few modern SS power amps that seem to smooth out the grain but they make the sound dull and lifeless. I've never had this with valve pre amps (sometimes harshness with cheaper ones or cheap valves, but never the "grain"). Nor with good passives.

    Is it in my head, are my ears/brain sensitive, or is this just the way it is?
    I know where you're coming from Lawrence, as I've experienced the same. However, not all SS preamps are like that; it simply depends on how they've been designed, and crucially, how they 'gel' with the partnering power amp.

    Therefore, the effect you're hearing is often more likely to come from a pre/power amp mismatch (and sometimes the cables used), than any defined sonic signature of silicon.

    That's why, in my experience, pre and power amps (valve or SS) should always be viewed as a pairing, and therefore considering their respective electrical requirements (and sonic signatures, so that synergy is achieved), is vitally important to get a good sound.

    Too many folks, when buying hi-fi equipment, don't build SYSTEMS; they simply assemble a disparate collection of boxes, and somehow expect them to make music. Unfortunately, that's not how it works!

    Marco.
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & reg mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat/Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight/Isonoe feet & boots/Ortofon RS-212D/Denon DL-103GL in Denon PCL-300 headshell with Funk Firm Houdini/Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp/Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

    CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.

    Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new, by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from the TCD-420a. Also with matching TM4 Norway microphones.

    Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. LDR Stereo Coffee. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.

    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

    Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.

    Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.


    Protect your HUMAN RIGHTS and REFUSE ANY *MANDATORY* VACCINE FOR COVID-19!

    Also **SAY NO** to unjust 'vaccine passports' or certificates, which are totally incompatible with a FREE society!!!


  7. #7
    Join Date: Aug 2009

    Location: Staffordshire, England

    Posts: 37,737
    I'm Martin.

    Default

    Most pre-amps are rubbish whether they are valve or solid state.

    Best valve pre-amp I have heard is Marco's heavily modded Croft. In fact that is pretty much a custom build really.

    Best solid state is Barry's Mark Levinson. I'd have one if I could find one and afford it.

    If you can't afford to spend thousands on an active pre-amp get a quality passive and use a compatible power amp.
    Current Lash Up:

    TEAC VRDS 701T > Sony TAE1000ESD > Krell KSA50S > JM Labs Focal Electra 926.

  8. #8
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 110,012
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

    Default

    Yes, that's pretty sound advice. A lot of potentially good systems are hampered by a poorly matched and/or designed preamp.

    However (and I know this is not what you're saying, but it's often stated as the case), it's also a fallacy that simply sticking a passive preamp into a system will cure 'all the ills' of an active design.

    That simply isn't the case, as is the notion that passives are automatically more 'accurate'. They're not accurate if they're mangling the music signal, because they're being used in the wrong system or with the wrong power amp. You have to get it right.

    And yes, the VERY best active designs, valve or SS, don't come cheap. The same applies to phonostages.

    Marco.
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & reg mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat/Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight/Isonoe feet & boots/Ortofon RS-212D/Denon DL-103GL in Denon PCL-300 headshell with Funk Firm Houdini/Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp/Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

    CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.

    Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new, by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from the TCD-420a. Also with matching TM4 Norway microphones.

    Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. LDR Stereo Coffee. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.

    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

    Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.

    Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.


    Protect your HUMAN RIGHTS and REFUSE ANY *MANDATORY* VACCINE FOR COVID-19!

    Also **SAY NO** to unjust 'vaccine passports' or certificates, which are totally incompatible with a FREE society!!!


  9. #9
    Join Date: Apr 2008

    Location: Warrington

    Posts: 3,451
    I'm Neil.

    Default Solid state preamp grain compared to valves

    Some of that “grain” could be in the recording itself, where some of the more euphonic valve pres would gloss over it.

    Know what you mean about solid state grain though, it’s rare to find solid state gear without it when comparing to valves, just as it’s rare to find solid state precision and tautness with valves.
    Mana Acoustics Racks / Bright Star IsoNodes Decoupling >> Allo DigiOne Player >> Pedja Rogic's Audial Model S DAC + Pioneer PL-71 turntable / Vista Audio phono-1 mk II / Denon PCL-5 headshell / Reson Reca >> LFD DLS >> LFD PA2M (SE) >> Royd RR3s.

  10. #10
    Join Date: Aug 2009

    Location: Staffordshire, England

    Posts: 37,737
    I'm Martin.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Yomanze View Post
    Some of that “grain” could be in the recording itself, where some of the more euphonic valve pres would gloss over it.

    .
    Agree but we shouldn't confuse 'grain' in the recording with distortion added by the system. A lot of what people think is 'On the recording' really isn't.
    Current Lash Up:

    TEAC VRDS 701T > Sony TAE1000ESD > Krell KSA50S > JM Labs Focal Electra 926.

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