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Thread: The Snake Oil Machine

  1. #91
    Join Date: Jan 2011

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    I'm Stephen.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Barry View Post
    Are any of the grounding lines connected to either mains earth, or Mother Earth? Or does the box and its contents provide the noise sink?
    Russ Andrews does it that way with daisy chains to the amplifier and one last earth line to a wall plug connected to earth. The Entreq mineral mix is providing the noise dump, no connection to mains earth or earth spikes.

  2. #92
    Join Date: Mar 2017

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    I'm Dennis.

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    'Daisy chains' sounds like series connected earths which results in a build up of dropped EMFs. Star earthing to the main point is better.

  3. #93
    Join Date: Dec 2014

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    Hi Mike,

    Sorry for the delay. Sunday lunches here aren't just lunches, but family social occasions, and so when you're eating, talking and enjoying a few glasses of wine together, time just flies! Anyway....



    Excellent, so are you volunteering to help? I can offer you a position on the team if you like!

    I'm joking, but also serious, because it's all too easy sitting and criticising from the sidelines (anyone can do that), but it's a rather different story actually dedicating the time and effort required to carry out what seems like a simple task, particularly on a busy forum such as this, where popular threads can quickly run into multiple pages before you know it, and especially if your life doesn't just revolve around AoS!

    That's the reason why I locked the thread, to go and have lunch, because if I hadn't, it'd have probably run away with itself by now. Therefore, for once, it would be nice if folks saw things from OUR point of view, and in terms of *minimising* our workload, not increasing it



    Fair enough, but blinkered absolutism is often what I see, and more often than not from those from a pro-science position, although some subjectivists too, are also guilty. It manifests itself as the perpetrator resolutely insisting that there is only 'one true path' for analysing or explaining any aspect of audio, either measurement/science-based or 'ears' based, when in reality BOTH are important, and so any sensible person usually occupies the middle ground.

    I have a big problem with absolutism for that reason, as invariably the truths in life, and in audio, occupy the middle of two extremes, in this case between staunchly objectivist and subjectivist thinking, in relation to hi-fi.

    However, as this is unashamedly a staunchly subjectivist forum, the subjectivist mindset will always be given priority, within reason (based largely upon whether or not their argument is conducted civilly), and so objectivists who we consider [ultimately it will be down to my judgement] are guilty of absolutist (black and white) thinking, along the lines of 'anything that can't be proven via measurement/adhering to known parameters, text books or blind testing, is imaginary bullshit', will always be given short shrift!

    And some of the comments made here earlier appeared to display that type of thinking. Now if that offends your sensibilities, or anyone else's here, then I'm sorry, but that's just how it is, and how it will always be on AoS.



    Firstly, as I've already said on the politics vote thread, if in the final analysis, there is very little between the 'yes' and 'no' vote, then I will give priority to the 'no' vote, so seeing how close things stand as of now, unless at the end there is a big swing towards a 'yes' vote, it's very likely there will be no ban on discussing political topics, and things will stay as they are, but be much more strictly moderated in future (along with what I outlined on the thread concerned).

    However, if the 'yes' vote should win, then I'll come back to you on the latter part of your question!



    I've no problem with that and would comply with the wishes of any member in that respect, in line with what the forum software allows.

    I'd probably need to look into the matter in more detail than I've done before, because all I'm aware of at present is a 'Delete Member' button, which simply removes their profile details, along with any stored avatars, subsequently reducing them to the status of 'Guest', but unfortunately still leaving all of their posts visible.

    I'd hope that there is a more elegant solution available than that in our current VBulletin software, which completely erases all trace of, as you say, someone's "cyber presence". I will definitely look into that though, for reference purposes, if nothing else.

    Marco.

    Thank you for taking the time for such a detailed response Marco - very clear.

    Much appreciated

  4. #94
    Join Date: Jan 2009

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    Quote Originally Posted by cyclopse View Post
    Russ Andrews does it that way with daisy chains to the amplifier and one last earth line to a wall plug connected to earth. The Entreq mineral mix is providing the noise dump, no connection to mains earth or earth spikes.
    That may be the concept but it isn’t the reality as many components actually bond signal earth to mains earth within themselves.
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  5. #95
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

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    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mikmas View Post
    Thank you for taking the time for such a detailed response Marco - very clear.

    Much appreciated
    No problem, Mike. You're welcome. You raised some good points, and are a valued member of the forum, so I thought you deserved a proper reply

    Marco.
    Main System

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    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp/Denon AU-310 SUT.

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    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

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  6. #96
    Join Date: Mar 2010

    Location: Sheffield

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    I'm Simon.

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    I'd like to come to your house and measure your speakers going an octave lower with your entreq in place and see what if any currents you have running across your various earths.

    I love the idea of inaudible noise, how can anything inaudible be noisy, aren't they diametric opposites?
    Kuzma Stabi/S 12", (LP12-bastard) DC motor and optical tacho psu, Benz LP, Paradise (phonostage). MB-Pro, Brooklyn dac and psu, Bruno Putzeys balanced pre, mod86p dual mono amps, Yamaha NS1000m

  7. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by cyclopse View Post
    The bass goes an octave lower .......
    Presumably you mean that it ‘sounds as if the bass goes an octave lower’, using a bit of poetic licences. Even heavy application of DSP would struggle to actually make a small pair of speakers go a whole octave lower (at more than very low volume levels).
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  8. #98
    Join Date: Jan 2011

    Location: Bristol, UK

    Posts: 278
    I'm Stephen.

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    A quote from Alan Sircom HiFi+ review from February 2018 Gutwire perfect grounding cable:-
    ‘Perfect does the background noise floor lowering and soundstage widening you might expect from grounding blocks.’

  9. #99
    Join Date: Dec 2014

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    I think these two posts highlights one of the key problems with threads about 'contentious' products like the Gutwire.
    Both posters I respect based on advice I have gathered in the past but clearly one of them must be wrong in this particular case:

    Personally I would rather err on the side of caution than risk betting on the wrong one

    (emphasis added)
    -------------------------
    Stratmangler #64

    The thing to bear in mind is that there's nothing mystical going on with the product brought to light in the OP.
    The majority of audio equipment complies with class 2 electrical regs, and doesn't have a protective ground on it.
    Using one of the leads in question directly connects the signal ground to mains ground, which may or may not have audible effects. You could knock up a lead for less than £5.00 that may not look as pretty, but it'll do the same job.

    There is one thing that isn't considered, and that's induced RFI on the ground connection.
    Oh, and under fault conditions your equipment becomes toast

    -------------
    Barry #88

    If you are using a class II compliant device, it is double insulated (and will be marked as such by having a 'square within a square' symbol on the back panel) and will use a two core mains lead. Adding a 'grounding lead', one which connects the signal ground to mains earth will not affect or compromise the safety of your amplifier.

    It may or may not affect the sound quality.
    -------------

  10. #100
    Join Date: Jul 2009

    Location: Hampshire, UK

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    I'm Adam.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Barry View Post
    If you are using a class II compliant device, it is double insulated (and will be marked as such by having a 'square within a square' symbol on the back panel) and will use a two core mains lead. Adding a 'grounding lead', one which connects the signal ground to mains earth will not affect or compromise the safety of your amplifier.

    It may or may not affect the sound quality.
    If you connect a Class II appliance to mains earth, then it is no longer a Class II appliance and is required to pass a different set of safety tests to guarantee its CE compliance.

    This marvellous lead therefore strikes me as not only a pointless exercise (IMHO of course) but a slightly dodgy one.
    Engineers: fixing problems you didn't know you had in ways you don't understand.

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