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Thread: Early Philips and Marantz CDPs

  1. #11
    Join Date: Feb 2010

    Location: Berkshire, UK

    Posts: 3,250
    I'm Tom.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Macca View Post
    That's what I'm saying. Context is everything. It only took a few people to say that early digital was rubbish and now everyone believes it even though they have never tried it retrospectively.


    The mags, dealers and makers never disabuse anyone of this myth because they want people buying the latest bit of kit, which is always better than what went before of course.

    My objection to digital in the 80s - as a 90% classical listener - was mainly on the grounds of unappealing, harsh sound, but also on the limited repertoire available.

    Yes I had an LP12 at the time, into a Technics amp and Tannoys. Didn't use my 1970s Sony tape deck much except to make tapes for the car. But as a system it was enjoyable.

    I could see the benefits of CD - no crackly noise to distract from the quiet passages, no worries about tracking in the loud bits, or about jumps and scratches - but overall the sound just wasn't there for me.

    And what material was coming out in the classical market wasn't that compelling - DG were in thrall to Karajan so you got lots of new recordings of the old potboilers - Beethoven and Brahms symphonies, warhorse romantic piano concertos, endless weirdly shaped box sets of tedious operas. Not that much interesting stuff. And this approach was replicated by their competitors. If you already had a decent record collection and any sort of taste beyond the safe, stuffed-shirt material on a loop at the Royal Festival Hall, you were out of luck.

    Even worse in non-classical though - visiting a hifi shop and it was wall to wall Dire Straits, Pink Floyd, electro-pop manufactured to sound snappy and modern for CD - it was awful. (My, how things have changed ... )

    Anyway I didn't buy a CDP till the early 90s and I replaced my amp and tape deck at the same time with Denon gear as it sounded better to me than the early stuff. By that time some classical stuff was only being released on CD.

    Of course there was good gear coming out by the mid-late 80s, but I couldn't have afforded a CD 94 at the time, or at least I wouldn't have borrowed that much money for it without any CDs to play on it.

    Remember that LPs at the time were 5-6 for full price, and from about a quid for stuff with the corner snipped off, as opposed to 13.50 for a CD. Even better when second hand stuff began appearing in large amounts by the early 90s as all the idiots got rid of their vinyl - some of us filled our boots. Some places could hardly give classical records away. I recall in New Zealand one s/h record shop in Wellington (what would now be called a 'pop-up as it was only open for a few weeks) offering 4 LPs for $1 NZ - at the then exchange rate that's four for 30p. I have some fabulous Lieder and chamber music recordings from that store but also jazz and rock - Jimmy Smith, Humble Pie, Brubeck ...

    Hopefully we aren't far off the moment (we may be in it now) when you can't give away classical CDs as all the fashion followers pile into streaming.

    Anyway I've never actually reached a point where my digital has been better than my analogue and I doubt I ever will. But digital in 1984, when the CD84 came out ... a piece of history, a bit of fun, but even plugged into a quality modern setup I doubt it will suddenly blossom.
    Main: Speakers 'RFC' Tannoy Canterburys / custom crossovers with Tannoy ST25 supertweeters; Amp - Radford STA100; Pre EAR 912; Vinyl: Thorens TD124 MkII + Ikeda IT345-CR1 9 inch and Ikeda IT-407 12 inch tonearms; Cartridges Stereo - Miyajima Madake, Miyajima Takumi, Ikeda 9TT, SAEC/Excel C3; Mono - Miyajimas - Zero 0.7, Premium 1.0, Edison '78' 4.0 conical, and Shure M44 strapped for mono with several Expert Stylus conicals for different eras of 78s; Phono stage and SUT from EAR 912 + Miyajima ETR-Mono SUT; Esoteric Sound Re-Equalizer for equalisation of early mono and 78, switchable in from tape loop; Digital: Audio Note CDT2/II transport, heavily modded AN Kit DAC + Mutec MC3+USB.

    Study: Speakers - Tannoy DC6; Amp: Pass Aleph 'Mini'; tube preamp - Gate Audio tube; Vinyl: Garrard 401 with AT1503 Mk I tonearm and vintage Ortofon SL-15e with matching Ortofon 2-15k SUT; Phono Stage from Gate Audio preamp; Digital - Trichord Genesis III CDP + Arcam rBlink.

  2. #12
    Join Date: Jun 2015

    Location: London/Durham

    Posts: 1,911
    I'm Lawrence.

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    I'm sure that's all true but part of the fun in this hobby is trying out new things, sometimes leftfield but it's all good experience especially when it's cheap

    Sent from my BLN-L21 using Tapatalk

  3. #13
    Join Date: Aug 2009

    Location: Staffordshire, England

    Posts: 21,983
    I'm Martin.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lawrence001 View Post
    I'm sure that's all true but part of the fun in this hobby is trying out new things, sometimes leftfield but it's all good experience especially when it's cheap

    Sent from my BLN-L21 using Tapatalk
    If you get fed up of it let me know and I'll have it. I reckon I have my system set up to get the best from digital so I'd be interested to see if I can hear the alleged harshness etc.
    Martin



    Current Lash Up:

    Technics SLP1200 CD Player * NVA P90SA passive pre / Krell KSA50S Power amp * JM Lab Electra 926 loudspeakers *


    'This is the sort of music I'd be listening to if I was going shopping for a training bra.'

  4. #14
    Join Date: Jun 2015

    Location: London/Durham

    Posts: 1,911
    I'm Lawrence.

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    Ok that's a deal but postage might not be cheap it weighs a ton!

    Sent from my BLN-L21 using Tapatalk

  5. #15
    Join Date: Aug 2009

    Location: Staffordshire, England

    Posts: 21,983
    I'm Martin.

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    No worries about that.
    Martin



    Current Lash Up:

    Technics SLP1200 CD Player * NVA P90SA passive pre / Krell KSA50S Power amp * JM Lab Electra 926 loudspeakers *


    'This is the sort of music I'd be listening to if I was going shopping for a training bra.'

  6. #16
    Join Date: Jun 2015

    Location: London/Durham

    Posts: 1,911
    I'm Lawrence.

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    Hoping to get it on Friday, will report back soon after on the sound (children permitting).

  7. #17
    Join Date: Aug 2009

    Location: Staffordshire, England

    Posts: 21,983
    I'm Martin.

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    Re the Sony cdp101, I was reading about it on another forum. One person heard it back in the 1980s and was not keen on it, and was listening to it through Naim 32.5 / HiCap, 250 or 135s, Isobariks

    later in the thread same person says

    Digital has been a few years coming to this standard.
    At the beginning I couldn't see how it would ever sound any good.
    Technological advances have been big but when you consider 40 years or so not so fast.
    The last few years seem to have been the biggest improvements


    Hands up who can spot the problem here.
    Martin



    Current Lash Up:

    Technics SLP1200 CD Player * NVA P90SA passive pre / Krell KSA50S Power amp * JM Lab Electra 926 loudspeakers *


    'This is the sort of music I'd be listening to if I was going shopping for a training bra.'

  8. #18
    Join Date: Jan 2009

    Location: Essex

    Posts: 18,487
    I'm openingabottleofwine.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Macca View Post
    Re the Sony cdp101, I was reading about it on another forum. One person heard it back in the 1980s and was not keen on it, and was listening to it through Naim 32.5 / HiCap, 250 or 135s, Isobariks

    later in the thread same person says

    Digital has been a few years coming to this standard.
    At the beginning I couldn't see how it would ever sound any good.
    Technological advances have been big but when you consider 40 years or so not so fast.
    The last few years seem to have been the biggest improvements


    Hands up who can spot the problem here.
    Yes - he was listening through Linn Isobaraks.
    Have you listened to this month's choice in the Album Club?

    Barry

  9. #19
    Join Date: Aug 2009

    Location: Staffordshire, England

    Posts: 21,983
    I'm Martin.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Barry View Post
    Yes - he was listening through Linn Isobaraks.
    ...driven by old school Naim.

    Yes, we have a winner!
    Martin



    Current Lash Up:

    Technics SLP1200 CD Player * NVA P90SA passive pre / Krell KSA50S Power amp * JM Lab Electra 926 loudspeakers *


    'This is the sort of music I'd be listening to if I was going shopping for a training bra.'

  10. #20
    Join Date: Oct 2016

    Location: Bolton, England

    Posts: 1,381
    I'm Andrew.

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    I agree. I've heard more hard/cold/abrasive sounds attributable to Naim amps than to CD players.

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