+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 18

Thread: Ref 3A speakers with BP SE300b

Hybrid View

Previous Post Previous Post   Next Post Next Post
  1. #1
    Join Date: May 2015

    Location: Shrewsbury

    Posts: 45
    I'm Michael.

    Default Ref 3A speakers with BP SE300b

    I was wondering if anyone here has experienced the combination of BP SE300b with Ref 3a products. I've read that the De Capo is borderline in sensitivity with some 300b SE amps. Maybe the BP choke input psu would make a difference. I like what I have read about Ref 3a - in particular their capabilities rendering acoustic/jazz/vocal.

    My listening would rarely be at high volume.

  2. #2
    Join Date: Sep 2010

    Location: Nr Ashbourne, East Midlands, UK

    Posts: 73
    I'm Mike.

    Default

    Personally I haven't found the choke input approach to really affect what the amps can drive...More that it affects what you get once you have everything else sorted.

    A couple of points

    I have found that the matching of gain in the system makes a lot of difference, in particular the input sensitivity of the power amp and gain in the pre amp.

    Not sure which version of the power amp you are looking at but they are/were available in both a high and low gain version and this will significantly affect the above...
    Lenco B51/upgraded bearing/slate plinth
    DIY Schroder/Axia/HM7
    Schick/Zero/KSW
    Art Audio Vinyl 1 Ref
    Modified Mac Mini/Weiss DAC 202
    SJS Model 2
    BP P20 (SJS upgraded)
    Trenner and Friedl RA

  3. #3
    Join Date: Nov 2008

    Location: Belfast/Northern Ireland/UK

    Posts: 17,384
    I'm Neil.

    Default

    Ref 3A are nice with valves, but for best control you need more power.
    Regards Neil

    System 1 (Living Room) : Vinyl: AMG Giro Turntable, AMG 9W2 Tonearm, AMG Reference Armcable, Air Tight PC3 MC Cartridge PhonoStage: Passlabs Xono Digital: Esoteric P5 SACD Transport and Esoteric P 5 DAC, Sony HAP Z1es Digital File Player + Audioquest Jitter Bug, Computer Audio: Veracity Audio Mystra DAC + HP laptop + iFi Audio i Power, Wireworld Starlight USB + Audioquest Jitter Bug Tuner:Revox B760 + Magnum Dynalab Signal Sleuth FM Amplifier Cassette Tape: Nakamichi CR5e Integrated Amplifier: Balanced Audio Technology VK300se Speakers: Anthony Gallo Reference 3.1 Audio Cabling: Signal - Atlas Mavros, Audience AU24 Speaker - Atlas Mavros. Mains Cabling: Audience AU24, Analysis Plus, TCI. Mains Distribution: Mark Grant Distribution Blocks, Mark Grant DC Blocker Equipment Tables: Target Audio B series + Track Audio Isolation Spikes Isolation/ Platforms: Bright Star Audio Isonodes, BASE 01, SSC Platforms.

    System 2 (Music Room) : Vinyl: Turntable 1 Loricraft Garrard 401 Turntable + SME 5 Tonearm, Graham IC70 Tonearm Cable + VDH MC10 cartridge Turntable 2 Modified Technics 1200 turntable + Triplannar 7 Tonearm + VDH Frog Gold Cartridge + Paul Hynes SR7 PSU Turntable 3 SME Model 20 Turntable + Graham Phantom Tonearm + Graham IC70 Tonearm Cable, Ortofon MC5200 Cartridge PhonoStage: Balanced Audio Technology VK10se Digital: Moon Andromeda CD Player, Toshiba 9500 DVD Audio Player Computer Audio: AMR DP777 DAC + Dell Laptop + iFi Audio i Power + JKenny JKSPIDIF + Wireworld Starlight USB Tuners: Kenwood 8300 Tuner, Revox B760 Tuner, Leak Troughline Tuner + EAR Stereo Decoder ReelToReel Tape: Revox B77 mk 2, Revox A77 mk3, Sony TC-377 Cassette Tape: Nakamichi DR10 Headphone: Audio Valve RKV2 OTL Valve Headphone Amp, Headphones Grado GS 1000, Sennheiser 560 Ovation2, Sennheiser 410SL Pre-Amplifier: Balanced Audio Technology VK52se Power-Amplifier: Music Reference RM200 mk1 Speakers: Anthony Gallo Reference 3.5 Audio Cabling: Signal - Audience AU24, Kimber KCAG, Audio Note ANVs, Barry Hunt Cables Speaker - XLO Type 6. Mains Cabling: Audience AU24, TCI. Mains Distribution: Mark Grant and Russ Andrews Equipment Tables: Clear Light Audio Aspekt Tacks Isolation/Platform: SSC, Bright Star Audio Isonodes, Naim Frame Record Cleaner: Hanns Audio

  4. #4
    Join Date: May 2016

    Location: Notts

    Posts: 1,618
    I'm Geoff.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Dalek Supreme D L View Post
    Ref 3A are nice with valves, but for best control you need more power.
    I would agree that low output 300b designs may be pushing it a bit, especially with a low gain pre-amp. However, I have driven my Reference 3a de Capo speakers very well with an Art Audio Quintet in triode mode (15w per channel). No need to switch to pentode mode.

    Geoff

  5. #5
    Join Date: May 2015

    Location: Shrewsbury

    Posts: 45
    I'm Michael.

    Default

    Mike,

    How does the power amp input sensitivity affect current delivery to the load? If the pre is delivering sufficient voltage to suit the gain of the power amp driver stage, surely maximum output can be achieved into the speakers. My pre is an Aikido design with plenty of drive.

    My amp is currently wired for high gain and I intend to change it for low sensitivity though not to increase amplifier/speaker capability - instead to further improve the already very good sq.

    I know that ideally I need loudspeakers of >94dB sensitivity according to BP but I have read several accounts of 300b 8W amps and even 2A3 amps powering the Ref 3A De Capo successfully. It's probably a lot to do with room size, listening levels and music choice. Maybe if I go down the Ref 3A path I will need to reinforce the bass with a sub but I do accept that ultimately the amp/speaker combination may not work well enough for me.

    My current speakers, some 3dB less sensitive do lack bass with my BP amp They go loud enough for me without significant distortion however.
    I will build a Nelson Pass amp at some point which should give me some of the qualities I like in my BP but more oomph.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Adams View Post
    Personally I haven't found the choke input approach to really affect what the amps can drive...More that it affects what you get once you have everything else sorted.

    A couple of points

    I have found that the matching of gain in the system makes a lot of difference, in particular the input sensitivity of the power amp and gain in the pre amp.

    Not sure which version of the power amp you are looking at but they are/were available in both a high and low gain version and this will significantly affect the above...
    Last edited by Avinunca1; 31-05-2018 at 09:34.

  6. #6
    Join Date: Sep 2010

    Location: Nr Ashbourne, East Midlands, UK

    Posts: 73
    I'm Mike.

    Default

    IMO it’s part of the question; ie, is the Aikido providing sufficient voltage to get full output out of the power amp? I’m unfamiliar with the Aikido design or how much gain it provides…

    Personally I would have thought that you wanted the higher gain version?

    The point I was trying to make is that I’m not convinced that looking at watts and db alone is necessarily a great indicator of a good match between amp and speakers as there are so many other factors and Ive found that as well as needing an amplifier that can deal with the requirements of a speaker you also need to match the gain within the system to get good results.

    Whether you will be happy with it is going to depend…you can get away with all sorts but eventually it may be musically unsatisfying or restrictive. Regardless of anyone else’s opinion this is going to come down to you at the end of the day and I guess the only way to know is to try…
    Lenco B51/upgraded bearing/slate plinth
    DIY Schroder/Axia/HM7
    Schick/Zero/KSW
    Art Audio Vinyl 1 Ref
    Modified Mac Mini/Weiss DAC 202
    SJS Model 2
    BP P20 (SJS upgraded)
    Trenner and Friedl RA

  7. #7
    Join Date: Mar 2017

    Location: London N2

    Posts: 997
    I'm Edward.

    Default

    I have Ref 3A De Capos but no SE amp. However for what it is worth I've run the Ref 3As with a Radford STA25, a Sugden Masterclass and a prototype KT88/EL34 PP amp. The Ref 3As sing beautifully with great imaging and scale - even at low vol.
    Source: Tidal/Roon
    DAC: Metrum HEX NOS

    Amp: Sugden Masterclass 2018 spec, Radford Revival STA25,
    Speakers: Tannoy Eaton


  8. #8
    Join Date: May 2015

    Location: Shrewsbury

    Posts: 45
    I'm Michael.

    Default

    I've bought the De Capos and they are as Craig says A Mazing!
    Running them with my Leak Stereo 20. Need to sort a problem out on the BP before I can try it. In Stereophile the reviewer was using an AN Kit one. The review , like all the others I've read was glowing with praise for the speakers. Just need to sort proper stands out.

  9. #9
    Join Date: Nov 2008

    Location: belgrade serbia

    Posts: 659
    I'm gordan.

    Default

    My fav small boxes, amazing with Pass Labs Aleph 30. Probably even better with toobs.
    Gordan.
    Speakers: Oris Swing MkII
    Amps: Thomas Mayer 300b/ Hiraga La Maison de L'Audiophile 20
    Preamp: Silver AVC by eng. Ferenc Lazar
    Phono Preamp: Shishido LCR by Solaja Audio
    Deck: Garrard 301 Martin Bastin reworked/plinthed with Fidelity Research FR64fx
    Cartridges: SPU Spirit/ Koetsu Black revisited by eng. Salai/ Miyajima Shilabe
    Step Up Transformers: Tango MCT 999/ Ortofon T-5000/ Lumiere SUT
    Digital: Shigaclone by eng. Ferenc Lazar with Lampizator Amber II
    Wires: of sufficient length

  10. #10
    Join Date: May 2015

    Location: Shrewsbury

    Posts: 45
    I'm Michael.

    Default

    I will probably build a Pass M2 having heard favourable reports for the pairing.

+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast



 

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •