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Thread: Whats The Best Sounding Tonearm Vintage/Recent Regardless of Price?

  1. #61
    Join Date: Aug 2018

    Location: London Knightsbridge

    Posts: 414
    I'm Nari.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Barry View Post
    So have I; same model SME arms, mounted on the same model TTs. But unless I used a single cartridge in one arm on a particular TT and then removed the cartridge and fitted it to another sample of the arm, which was in turn fitted to the previous TT, I wouldn't be able to come to such a definite conclusion.

    Spot on barry thats what I have and always do when comparing arms two samples of cartridges can make differences also being ultra careful on set in a must even vta changes can have a vast impact.

  2. #62
    Join Date: Mar 2016

    Location: East Sussex

    Posts: 419
    I'm Nat.

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    I have a Fidelity Research FR-12 tonearm on my pre Cirkus LP12 and it out performs on every count the Cirkus bearing LP12/Ittock I had before with the same tonearm and the same amps and speakers.
    Not in the same league as it's stable mate the FR-64S (which I would love to hear) as it was designed as a cheaper FR-14 specially for the late 70's LP12 as an alternative to the Grace I believe. The engineering that has gone into this arm is exceptional and if you take into account fettling by Phonomac which I will have done in the autumn you could own this fantastic tonearm for under £500.
    I don't know whether it would fit onto the decks you describe but if it does then you could do a lot worse for the money.
    Last edited by Natara; 19-08-2018 at 09:47.

  3. #63
    Join Date: Apr 2015

    Location: london

    Posts: 162
    I'm martin.

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    Just to add my vote to the already mentioned tonearms - AudioCraft/UltraCraft, Stax UA and Hadcock - all unipivot designs (damped in case of Stax and AudioCraft) . Obviously, with cartridges to match.

  4. #64
    Join Date: Aug 2018

    Location: London Knightsbridge

    Posts: 414
    I'm Nari.

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    Spent the afternoon setting up my Shun Mook modified SAEC 407/23 tonearm with a shun mook cartridge have not listened to it for over 6 years stunning
    Most important and used Walker Black Diamond Etsuro Gold, Micro Seiki 8000mk2 Kondo special V12 Tiger Eye, Fidelity Research FR 66 Shindo spu, EMT 927, sme 312 aluminium. Fidelity research fr66, Sme 3012 mk1, Sme V, Ikeda 407 IT Sme Model 30/2/Dynavector 507 Kodo Beat Turntable Airtangent 10B modified Fidelity fr66s Etsuro Cartridge . Kondo Gakuoh Mk1 powers G70 Pre,Audio Tekne TFA-8695PCS pre Audio Tekne TEA 8695 Phono. Lfd Battery Phono Stage heavily custom rebuilt by Dr Richard Bews, Tharx Phono Stage. Lfd Master Dual Biamp power amp, Lfd Anniversary master preamp. Shindo Latour Field Coil. Rockport Cygnus Biamped, Voigt Domestic Corner Horns/ Feastex Fildcoils. LFD Custom silver Ribbons. LFD Diamond Vipor Mk2 interconnects, Lfd Golden Cobra interconnect. Koetsu blue lace mono special order, Koetsu burma jade mono special order.

  5. #65
    Join Date: Jan 2012

    Location: Oxon.

    Posts: 45
    I'm Ant.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Luvaudio View Post
    Am looking to find a most musical tonearm for my future projects. I need one For either or
    Thorens 124, Lenco 75, Technics Sp15,
    Ar-Ta/Xa
    I bought my first tonearm in 1985 when I was a student in Manchester in 1985.......a Mayware Formula and it was a lovely fluid sounding arm. I’ve had several since over the years from Linn, Rega, Nottingham Analogue, SME, - but my favourite arm for sheer sound quality is the Funk FXR ll. Truly neutral and gets the best out of cartridges IMHE.

  6. #66
    Join Date: Aug 2018

    Location: London Knightsbridge

    Posts: 414
    I'm Nari.

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    Anything Arthur produces is truly wonderful generally not always the best built but stunning in terms of performance and ideas. I would love to hear his new Statement arm I visited the Munich show this this year hoping to see it I later found outer that some cleaver individual knocked the arm over and damaged it so he was unable to dem the new turntables looks stunning too.
    Most important and used Walker Black Diamond Etsuro Gold, Micro Seiki 8000mk2 Kondo special V12 Tiger Eye, Fidelity Research FR 66 Shindo spu, EMT 927, sme 312 aluminium. Fidelity research fr66, Sme 3012 mk1, Sme V, Ikeda 407 IT Sme Model 30/2/Dynavector 507 Kodo Beat Turntable Airtangent 10B modified Fidelity fr66s Etsuro Cartridge . Kondo Gakuoh Mk1 powers G70 Pre,Audio Tekne TFA-8695PCS pre Audio Tekne TEA 8695 Phono. Lfd Battery Phono Stage heavily custom rebuilt by Dr Richard Bews, Tharx Phono Stage. Lfd Master Dual Biamp power amp, Lfd Anniversary master preamp. Shindo Latour Field Coil. Rockport Cygnus Biamped, Voigt Domestic Corner Horns/ Feastex Fildcoils. LFD Custom silver Ribbons. LFD Diamond Vipor Mk2 interconnects, Lfd Golden Cobra interconnect. Koetsu blue lace mono special order, Koetsu burma jade mono special order.

  7. #67
    Join Date: Nov 2013

    Location: HAMPSTEAD

    Posts: 1,156
    I'm brian.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Onion View Post
    I bought my first tonearm in 1985 when I was a student in Manchester in 1985.......a Mayware Formula and it was a lovely fluid sounding arm. I’ve had several since over the years from Linn, Rega, Nottingham Analogue, SME, - but my favourite arm for sheer sound quality is the Funk FXR ll. Truly neutral and gets the best out of cartridges IMHE.
    Currently enjoying the Mayware in my present set up Ant, with Lenco 75/ decca line contact cartridge. Soon as the needle drops the clarity of sound amazes me straightaway, just a rightness to it somehow.
    There was one guy on here a few years ago who claimed that in 35 years of listening to decca cartridges he liked the mayware with it best of all.

  8. #68
    Join Date: Jan 2009

    Location: Essex

    Posts: 31,860
    I'm openingabottleofwine.

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    A Decca cartridge with a Mayware arm was always a good combination, as was a Decca with Hadcock arm combination.
    Barry

  9. #69
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 110,012
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

    Default The Magnesium vs. Stainless Steel Factor....

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry View Post
    I have both (well actually the 3012, not the 3012R, the latter of which uses a stainless steel arm rather than aluminium of the earlier 3012) and agree with you - but the bearings for motion in the vertical plane are quite different, and hence the two will 'sound' different.
    Yup, and the stainless steel arm-tube, as opposed to a magnesium one (in the case of the 'V', previously discussed) is also one of the main reasons why SME's 'modern' tonearms sound markedly different from their traditional designs, such as you own in the 3012 - but unfortunately few folks consider that *key* aspect of the design.

    I'm on record here as stating on numerous occasions (based on considerable experience) that well-engineered stainless-steel arms (due to the nature of their resonance characteristics) add 'life' to the sound of music reproduced, in a way that magnesium-based arms deaden, thus suck the life out of in comparison, but which is mistaken as 'neutrality', simply because magnesium (as a material) has excellent dampening properties, thus allows tonearms constructed from such to measure favourably.

    They might measure well, but as is often the case in hi-fi, superficially 'excellent measurements' don't always guarantee the best sound, or indeed one which is considered as 'musical' (in the way I've described).

    It's that type of 'neutrality', arrived at through excessive dampening (via the use of magnesium), which gives the SME V, for example (and all of SME's other arms in the same range) that 'coolness' and superficial lack of character - but in actuality, the 'character' ably exists, in the form of the effect on the music, of said dampening.

    It's why, whenever you listen to a cartridge (ANY cartridge) on an SME V, superficially it sounds good, in that you can't pinpoint anything obviously wrong, sonically, but musically it never quite gets your 'juices flowing', even when the music played demands that type of response from the listener, and you find yourself in the odd position of being 'impressed' with the sound, but also somehow rather disconnected, emotionally, from the music....

    A few classic (iconic) Japanese tonearms, both old an new, have been mentioned on this thread, and highly recommended, such as the FR64 and Ikeda, both of which are extremely well engineered, as indeed was the SME 3009 and 3012 (I'd also throw in my own Ortofon RS-212D into the mix, as it too is based on classic high-end Jap engineering). So what's one thing that they all have in common? I'll tell you: stainless steel arm-tubes!

    And here's the thing: do you honestly think that if magnesium was such a great material *sonically*, for arm-tubes, that the Japs wouldn't have used it when designing the type of 'statement' tonearms mentioned above? I don't think so...

    Therefore, Barry, I *guarantee* that if you replaced your 3009, with a Series V, or your 3012, with a 312S, you'd instantly hear the magnesium dampening effect I've described, and both the Series V and 312S robbing the sound of some 'life', in comparison with their respective stainless-steel tonearm counterparts. That's why the 'sleepers' in the current SME range are the Series M2-9R (and M2), and Series M2-12R - all use SS arm-tubes. And that, my friends, if you're an SME fan, is where you'll get the biggest bang for your buck!

    if SME weren't the type of company who judge their products so heavily on engineering prowess, and how well stuff measures, which don't get me wrong is very important, but it's not the be-all-and-end-all (after all what's effectively being designed is an instrument for reproducing music, not an engine to power an aircraft), then they might've cottoned onto the fact that magnesium is not necessarily the best material, *sonically*, from which to construct the arm-tube of a tonearm - and so wouldn't showcase/market their magnesium arms as representing the top models in their range...

    Alas, they seem blissfully ignorant of such. However, they know that people will buy their products, based on reputation, and on how good they look (and feel) in use, which undoubtedly are areas that ALL SME arms excel in. And of course, their magnesium-based ones don't sound bad, far from it; simply a little 'soulless', but they look and feel great, therefore it's easy to understand their widespread appeal and huge success. Dig a little deeper though, and apply some lateral thinking, and their musical flaws become immediately obvious.

    Marco.
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & reg mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat/Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight/Isonoe feet & boots/Ortofon RS-212D/Denon DL-103GL in Denon PCL-300 headshell with Funk Firm Houdini/Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp/Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

    CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.

    Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new, by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from the TCD-420a. Also with matching TM4 Norway microphones.

    Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. LDR Stereo Coffee. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.

    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

    Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.

    Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.


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  10. #70
    montesquieu Guest

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    Totally with you on this Marco, I have had a magnesium SME IV as well as a number of SS arms (including SME 3009, Ortofon AS212, Townshend Excalibur, AO PU7 and PU12), the best of them being the Ortofon 309i, FR64S, and my current Ikeda IT-407 and IT345CR1 - and all the SS arms had more life than the SME IV or V ... I can see where the SMEs might come into their own, where there was something lively about the deck perhaps .. but with a neutral deck like an SP10 or TD124 the SS arms have a strong advantage in my view.

    BTW I sold Barry my Ortofon RMG 309 as well as (very recently) an Ikeda 9C III to use on it .. suspect that's a combination made in heaven. Waiting to hear impressions ...
    Last edited by montesquieu; 23-08-2018 at 22:07.

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