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Thread: Can SE amps play Rage Against The Machine

  1. #71
    Join Date: Oct 2008

    Location: Glasgowshire

    Posts: 6,865
    I'm availableforweddingsAndBarmitzvas.

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    Can only speak (more than) highly about Nick Gorhams "Rage" amps...

    Solid state regulation...nothing commercial betters it.
    Saw Jaws in 75 at the Cinema...
    Star Wars in 77
    Close Encounters in 77
    Superman in 78
    Raiders in 81

    ...Im doing the same thing with my Son (whos 24)
    Only now getting the wisdom of my Dad and Im 50 next birthday!

  2. #72
    Join Date: May 2018

    Location: Somerset

    Posts: 24
    I'm Paul.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gazjam View Post
    Can only speak (more than) highly about Nick Gorhams "Rage" amps...

    Solid state regulation...nothing commercial betters it.
    I've exchanged a few emails with him, apparently he made an integrated the same time he made your mono's, he's offered to ship it to me for a listen. I asked about pricing and name, he said they did not have a name, quite an oversight I thought - so I've named them the 'Rage' Integrated and 'Rage' mono's.

    I'm still keeping an open mind but I've now moved from the list stage to the listening stage.
    Old punk rockers don't mellow.

  3. #73
    Join Date: Nov 2011

    Location: Manchester, UK

    Posts: 181
    I'm Simon.

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    SE valve amp and rock music? Border Patrol
    The S20 or pp P20 will work a treat with the LV speakers

    Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk
    SJS Arcadia Line Level Pre-amplifiers, Headphone amps, MM Phono Stages and SET Power amps - service, repairs, upgrades

  4. #74
    Join Date: May 2018

    Location: Somerset

    Posts: 24
    I'm Paul.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sjs View Post
    SE valve amp and rock music? Border Patrol
    The S20 or pp P20 will work a treat with the LV speakers

    Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk
    I had that very setup with WE300B and a silver wired hot rodded version of the P20 - this might be ok for Fleetwood Mac but RATM come over like Cliff Richard. Only when I added the Icon Audio mb90s did I get real rock.
    Old punk rockers don't mellow.

  5. #75
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 80,409
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

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    Hi Paul,

    Just like to say, I admire your open-minded and methodical approach to finding the amp you're looking for. I hope you find it eventually and that it all works out well

    Marco.
    http://www.thestainedglasscompany.com

    "A man is a success if he gets up in the morning and gets to bed at night, and in between he does what he wants to do" -- Milan Kundera.

    BE HAPPY EVERYDAY!

  6. #76
    Join Date: Mar 2009

    Location: The New Forest

    Posts: 1,177
    I'm Steve.

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    As both a SET amp user and Silicon power amp user I feel it is my duty to weigh in

    As Macca pointed out I use 3 SET amps on each of the mid, upper mid and ribbon tweeter driver channels.
    Why? Because for those drivers they are a good match. 118 / 116 / 111dB per watt a 5w SET amp is sweet sounding, fast and quite, quite loud enough. Low damping factor is not an issue with super light, fast compression driver diaphragms.

    The reason I would not go any where near a SET let alone a PP on the mid bass (JBL 2220 15" drivers with low Q values in FL horns) or the sub bass tapped FL horns (Eminence 15" LFII drivers) is simply to get the control needed at anything like reasonable cost, you need a high damping factor from the amplifier.

    A typical push pull amp has around 25 damping factor.

    SETs are lower still.
    Several kilovolt tubes might do it but at what cost and danger

    The 200w Crown amp on the mid bass horn channel has a damping factor of >150 (from memory).

    On sub bass channel I have a big Cewin Vega power amp, damping factor 280!

    These are very different amps to the ones I used at Scalford on the bass duty.. they were 80w T amps.

    Now, use those high damping factor amps on the upper channels and it sounds very mediocre. Complete mismatch.

    The high damping factor controls the bass cones effortlessly, giving that start/stop you need for tight high impact / fast bass you want for certain music types.

    If you go to a live event with any kind of sound reinforcement you will be listening to the bass using similar drivers (just many of) and huge, high damping factor amps.
    Things like the JBL Vertec stacks etc.

    My bass channels are 110dB/w and 105dB/w btw. So not exactly power sapping but they need control. Control a SET amp just can't cost effectively provide.

    Do the big amps sound any good?
    Well, yes at the frequencies I'm using them at they work just fine. Mid bass frequencies are 90 to 330Hz and sub horns below 20 to 90Hz.
    These are flat, 0dB responses btw. No bass roll off. In fact I like a bit more ommph at 18-25Hz for that huge room reverb Church organ experience

    Crossover slopes also play a roll in giving a good controlled bass sounds.
    Hence I use an excellent quality active DSP pre / crossover. Again not present at Scalford. Things have moved on a fair bit since then.

    I've have comparatively small room, things are tuned to my tastes across all frequencies.
    Never over powering, delicate and fast, brutal, deep and fast as required.

    Escaping the one amp, one speaker, fixed designed crossover, one size fits all, was liberating to say the least.

    For horn systems and hybrid ones too, driven by one amp it invariably means L-pads.
    The horn tweeter is so much more efficient than the passive radiating cone.
    These sap dynamics ime - even using the highest quality film resistors.

    Hybrid speakers like Tannoys can be bi-amped (modify the X/O's), enabling a nice SET amp to drive the horn tweeter and another amp, PP or other of choice for the bass.
    You can even go active
    Last edited by Magna Audio; 09-06-2018 at 18:45.
    System: Turntable : SP10 MKII slate plinth, Custom Ebony tonearm board, Arm : Fidelity Research FR64s, Cartridge : SPU Royal N. SUT : Lundahl 1:13. Phonostage : Icon Audio, Digital CD spinner, Serious USB->I2S streaming, ADC / DSP XO / Pre / 4 DAC's : WAF Najda, Poweramps : 3 x EL84 SET's, 2 x D class amps on bass channels, Speakers : 5 way front loaded horn system: 2 X Tapped sub 15" LF drivers / 2 X Exponential mid bass 15" drivers / Tractrix 200Hz mid horns with JBL2482's, / Tractrix 550Hz upper wooden horns with factory refurb'd Vitavox S2's / Raal Lazy Ribbons as high frequency tweeters. Wires: good silver or good copper where best suited. DIY RCM.

    Maker of counterweights, tonearm boards, Tannoy GRF style speaker cabinets, horn speakers and more.
    For more information about my creations and products please click below

    http://fosworld.wixsite.com/magna-audio & on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/magna_audio/

  7. #77
    Join Date: May 2018

    Location: Somerset

    Posts: 24
    I'm Paul.

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    Hi Magna Audio,

    Many thanks for your detailed description of your system, reminds me of the Haute-Fidelite shops I used to visit when I lived in Paris. I would love to hear it one day but for now I'll use the pictures to scare the wife.
    Old punk rockers don't mellow.

  8. #78
    Join Date: Mar 2009

    Location: The New Forest

    Posts: 1,177
    I'm Steve.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jahsavage View Post
    Hi Magna Audio,

    Many thanks for your detailed description of your system, reminds me of the Haute-Fidelite shops I used to visit when I lived in Paris. I would love to hear it one day but for now I'll use the pictures to scare the wife.
    Hehe,
    It's probably a lot more down to earth looking than boutique hifi.

    The thing with prototyping is you don't know if a particular evolution is just a stepping stone to something greater or the optimum possible for the money / space / tech available.
    So not much point in making it too swanky looking.

    I've got the basics right for my tastes, have for some time now, and have not changed them in several years.
    There have been tweaks though and next up I'm looking at improving the music server side of things.

    Scare away

    If you are ever in the area, you'd be welcome to have a listen.
    System: Turntable : SP10 MKII slate plinth, Custom Ebony tonearm board, Arm : Fidelity Research FR64s, Cartridge : SPU Royal N. SUT : Lundahl 1:13. Phonostage : Icon Audio, Digital CD spinner, Serious USB->I2S streaming, ADC / DSP XO / Pre / 4 DAC's : WAF Najda, Poweramps : 3 x EL84 SET's, 2 x D class amps on bass channels, Speakers : 5 way front loaded horn system: 2 X Tapped sub 15" LF drivers / 2 X Exponential mid bass 15" drivers / Tractrix 200Hz mid horns with JBL2482's, / Tractrix 550Hz upper wooden horns with factory refurb'd Vitavox S2's / Raal Lazy Ribbons as high frequency tweeters. Wires: good silver or good copper where best suited. DIY RCM.

    Maker of counterweights, tonearm boards, Tannoy GRF style speaker cabinets, horn speakers and more.
    For more information about my creations and products please click below

    http://fosworld.wixsite.com/magna-audio & on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/magna_audio/

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