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Thread: Chester Hifi Show 2018

  1. #131
    Join Date: Jan 2013

    Location: Birmingham

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    I'm James.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    Now you see, that's *exactly* the type of slim-baffled large floorstanding speaker I don't like, with side-firing bass drivers, which simply don't produce the same slam and scale, as the likes of the smaller Hecos above, with one front-mounted single 12-inch woofer per speaker, although they certainly have plenty of deep bass.

    However, as I've said before, deep bass and palpable scale/slam are quite different things - and in my experience with floorstanding speaker designs, one front-mounted, say, 12-inch woofer, will excel at the scale/slam thing more than 2 x, say, 8-inch side-firing woofers.

    Theoretically, you might have a total cone area of 16" inches, but in practice, the one front-mounted 12-inch woofer will still produce more scale/slam (given that the internal volume of the speakers in question is the same or similar)! That's what my experience tells me anyway

    Marco.
    Have you ever heard KEF Blades. They may make you think differently about what side firing speaker systems can do.

  2. #132
    Join Date: Nov 2008

    Location: Belfast/Northern Ireland/UK

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    I'm Neil.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimbo View Post
    Have you ever heard KEF Blades. They may make you think differently about what side firing speaker systems can do.
    My Anthony Gallo Reference 3.1 and 3.5 speakers also have a side firing bass driver. I think the problem for me with conventional cabinet designs is I can hear the cabinet and wide baffle speakers, those I have heard, don't image as well as narrow baffle speakers.
    Regards Neil

    System 1 (Living Room) : Vinyl: AMG Giro Turntable, AMG 9W2 Tonearm, AMG Reference Armcable, Air Tight PC3 MC Cartridge PhonoStage: Passlabs Xono Digital: Esoteric P5 SACD Transport and Esoteric P 5 DAC, Sony HAP Z1es Digital File Player + Audioquest Jitter Bug, Computer Audio: Veracity Audio Mystra DAC + HP laptop + iFi Audio i Power, Wireworld Starlight USB + Audioquest Jitter Bug Tuner:Revox B760 + Magnum Dynalab Signal Sleuth FM Amplifier Cassette Tape: Nakamichi CR5e Integrated Amplifier: Balanced Audio Technology VK300se Speakers: Anthony Gallo Reference 3.1 Audio Cabling: Signal - Atlas Mavros, Audience AU24 Speaker - Atlas Mavros. Mains Cabling: Audience AU24, Analysis Plus, TCI. Mains Distribution: Mark Grant Distribution Blocks, Mark Grant DC Blocker Equipment Tables: Target Audio B series + Track Audio Isolation Spikes Isolation/ Platforms: Bright Star Audio Isonodes, BASE 01, SSC Platforms.

    System 2 (Music Room) : Vinyl: Turntable 1 Loricraft Garrard 401 Turntable + SME 5 Tonearm, Graham IC70 Tonearm Cable + VDH MC10 cartridge Turntable 2 Modified Technics 1200 turntable + Triplannar 7 Tonearm + VDH Frog Gold Cartridge + Paul Hynes SR7 PSU Turntable 3 SME Model 20 Turntable + Graham Phantom Tonearm + Graham IC70 Tonearm Cable, Ortofon MC5200 Cartridge PhonoStage: Balanced Audio Technology VK10se Digital: Moon Andromeda CD Player, Toshiba 9500 DVD Audio Player Computer Audio: AMR DP777 DAC + Dell Laptop + iFi Audio i Power + JKenny JKSPIDIF + Wireworld Starlight USB Tuners: Kenwood 8300 Tuner, Revox B760 Tuner, Leak Troughline Tuner + EAR Stereo Decoder ReelToReel Tape: Revox B77 mk 2, Revox A77 mk3, Sony TC-377 Cassette Tape: Nakamichi DR10 Headphone: Audio Valve RKV2 OTL Valve Headphone Amp, Headphones Grado GS 1000, Sennheiser 560 Ovation2, Sennheiser 410SL Pre-Amplifier: Balanced Audio Technology VK52se Power-Amplifier: Music Reference RM200 mk1 Speakers: Anthony Gallo Reference 3.5 Audio Cabling: Signal - Audience AU24, Kimber KCAG, Audio Note ANVs, Barry Hunt Cables Speaker - XLO Type 6. Mains Cabling: Audience AU24, TCI. Mains Distribution: Mark Grant and Russ Andrews Equipment Tables: Clear Light Audio Aspekt Tacks Isolation/Platform: SSC, Bright Star Audio Isonodes, Naim Frame Record Cleaner: Hanns Audio

  3. #133
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 80,453
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimbo View Post
    Have you ever heard KEF Blades. They may make you think differently about what side firing speaker systems can do.
    Hi Jim,

    No I haven't. I'm aware of them, but haven't heard them. I'd certainly listen to the Blades with an open mind, but I doubt they'd be my thing. You never know, though!

    Marco.
    http://www.thestainedglasscompany.com

    "A man is a success if he gets up in the morning and gets to bed at night, and in between he does what he wants to do" -- Milan Kundera.

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  4. #134
    Join Date: Mar 2010

    Location: Sheffield

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    I'm Simon.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jandl100 View Post
    The edges cause diffraction, so act as an independent source of sound.
    The wider they are apart the more diffuse and spread out the imaging will be.

    The somebody who wanted infinitely wide baffles wanted to get away from diffraction effects altogether.
    Unachievable, of course.
    Except without any baffles.
    The wider apart they are the lower the frequency diffraction effects act at as well. Go low enough and bass is omni directional anyway. Its not as simple as wider equals worse imaging, far from it.
    Kuzma Stabi/S 12", (LP12-bastard) DC motor and optical tacho psu, Benz LP, Paradise (phonostage). MB-Pro, Brooklyn dac and psu, Bruno Putzeys balanced pre, mod86p dual mono amps, Yamaha NS1000m

  5. #135
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 80,453
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dalek Supreme D L View Post
    I think the problem for me with conventional cabinet designs is I can hear the cabinet and wide baffle speakers, those I have heard, don't image as well as narrow baffle speakers.
    Sure, and at the end of the day all speakers are a compromise. And although I care about it to a degree and consider it as important, I'm just not a big imaging/soundstaging freak. I'm more a rhythm/boogie/scale/slam/fun-factor kinda guy, so would always choose speakers that majored on that, as opposed to the former.

    However, in terms of my own speakers, they might have big cabinets with wide baffles, but the very nature of the Tannoy DC design ensures that imaging is very good, whereas with other large loudspeaker drive units, in similar cabinets, it might not be.

    The other thing to consider too, if you scroll back to the pics of the Hecos I posted earlier, and examine in particular the larger of the two models, you'll see that they may be rather wide, but they're not very deep, and for good reason...

    So there's not as much cabinet to 'hear' overall, with such designs, as you might think - and what's there will certainly be inert

    Marco.
    http://www.thestainedglasscompany.com

    "A man is a success if he gets up in the morning and gets to bed at night, and in between he does what he wants to do" -- Milan Kundera.

    BE HAPPY EVERYDAY!

  6. #136
    Join Date: Feb 2010

    Location: Berkshire, UK

    Posts: 3,249
    I'm Tom.

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    Gosh this has all moved on a bit since I last logged in.

    On the diffraction issue ... I recall once I was considering mounting my then 15in Monitor Golds from the back - utilising what I thought was the foam round the edge of the driver to 'seal' the joint (because it looks like a gasket), then reading that it was actually there to assist with diffraction effects that would otherwise be an issue with the usual large baffles they are put in.

    Unfortunately a 5min google hasn't turned up the link. But it seems plausible. Certainly for all the size of the baffles on mine, they image superbly. So there's clearly more to imaging than cat coffin chic!
    Main: Speakers 'RFC' Tannoy Canterburys / custom crossovers with Tannoy ST25 supertweeters; Amp - Radford STA100; Pre EAR 912; Vinyl: Thorens TD124 MkII + Ikeda IT345-CR1 9 inch and Ikeda IT-407 12 inch tonearms; Cartridges Stereo - Miyajima Madake, Miyajima Takumi, Ikeda 9TT, SAEC/Excel C3; Mono - Miyajimas - Zero 0.7, Premium 1.0, Edison '78' 4.0 conical, and Shure M44 strapped for mono with several Expert Stylus conicals for different eras of 78s; Phono stage and SUT from EAR 912 + Miyajima ETR-Mono SUT; Esoteric Sound Re-Equalizer for equalisation of early mono and 78, switchable in from tape loop; Digital: Audio Note CDT2/II transport, heavily modded AN Kit DAC + Mutec MC3+USB.

    Study: Speakers - Tannoy DC6; Amp: Pass Aleph 'Mini'; tube preamp - Gate Audio tube; Vinyl: Garrard 401 with AT1503 Mk I tonearm and vintage Ortofon SL-15e with matching Ortofon 2-15k SUT; Phono Stage from Gate Audio preamp; Digital - Trichord Genesis III CDP + Arcam rBlink.

  7. #137
    Join Date: Jun 2014

    Location: Chorley Lancs

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    I'm Steve.

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    Wouldn't the loudspeaker designs that have small(ish drivers on a tall narrow front, and large woofers on the sides not potentially provide all the required qualities? i.e. narrow front for less edge dispersion (so better imaging) combined with bass units in a wide baffle for deep bass and slam?

    In theory this design should have all the qualities that everyone posting on this thread seems to want.

    If I'm being a bit nave be kind to me, I don't normally post on anything technical, due to a paucity of required grey matter
    'I'm not crazy, my mother had me tested'

  8. #138
    Join Date: Apr 2012

    Location: Southall, West London

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    I'm Geoff.

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    Quote Originally Posted by montesquieu View Post
    On the diffraction issue ... I recall once I was considering mounting my then 15in Monitor Golds from the back - utilising what I thought was the foam round the edge of the driver to 'seal' the joint (because it looks like a gasket), then reading that it was actually there to assist with diffraction effects that would otherwise be an issue with the usual large baffles they are put in
    Dunno where you saw that Tom. The foam strips around the cone are gaskets. The Golds were back mounted in their manufacturer's cabinets and the foam sealed them in. The foam became redundant with the front mounted HPD's, but was retained as the alloy channel that holds the strips is what held the cone surrounds in place. No doubt the foam was kept to hide the screw heads.

  9. #139
    Join Date: Feb 2013

    Location: W Lothian

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    I'm Grant.

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    probably will help with diffraction tho, even if it wasnt made for purpose
    Regards,
    Grant ....

    I've said it before and I'll say it again: democracy simply-doesn't-work
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  10. #140
    Join Date: Feb 2010

    Location: Berkshire, UK

    Posts: 3,249
    I'm Tom.

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    Quote Originally Posted by walpurgis View Post
    Dunno where you saw that Tom. The foam strips around the cone are gaskets. The Golds were back mounted in their manufacturer's cabinets and the foam sealed them in. The foam became redundant with the front mounted HPD's, but was retained as the alloy channel that holds the strips is what held the cone surrounds in place. No doubt the foam was kept to hide the screw heads.
    No I've definitely seen this discussed. And I don't believe it was about the screw heads on the HPD.
    Main: Speakers 'RFC' Tannoy Canterburys / custom crossovers with Tannoy ST25 supertweeters; Amp - Radford STA100; Pre EAR 912; Vinyl: Thorens TD124 MkII + Ikeda IT345-CR1 9 inch and Ikeda IT-407 12 inch tonearms; Cartridges Stereo - Miyajima Madake, Miyajima Takumi, Ikeda 9TT, SAEC/Excel C3; Mono - Miyajimas - Zero 0.7, Premium 1.0, Edison '78' 4.0 conical, and Shure M44 strapped for mono with several Expert Stylus conicals for different eras of 78s; Phono stage and SUT from EAR 912 + Miyajima ETR-Mono SUT; Esoteric Sound Re-Equalizer for equalisation of early mono and 78, switchable in from tape loop; Digital: Audio Note CDT2/II transport, heavily modded AN Kit DAC + Mutec MC3+USB.

    Study: Speakers - Tannoy DC6; Amp: Pass Aleph 'Mini'; tube preamp - Gate Audio tube; Vinyl: Garrard 401 with AT1503 Mk I tonearm and vintage Ortofon SL-15e with matching Ortofon 2-15k SUT; Phono Stage from Gate Audio preamp; Digital - Trichord Genesis III CDP + Arcam rBlink.

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