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Thread: 10 audiophile myths busted

  1. #221
    Join Date: Jan 2008

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe View Post
    It's this 'pressure' bit I don't understand.
    It's natural to experience an element of pressure during ANY kind of test, especially if it's being conducted in a public or unfamiliar place, outwith of the comfort of your own home. Did you feel pressure when sitting exams in school? I know I did. It's human nature, as you want to do well and get [whatever it is being tested for] RIGHT.

    Now, of course it's different if you're simply blind-testing yourself at home, which shouldn't be stressful or pressurised, but as soon as the situation involves being judged by others on the results obtained, that causes pressure, and some will feel it more than others.

    I agree that demonstrating any claimed difference shouldn't be a problem, if that difference exists, and that could take the form of a simple listening test at a bake-off, which should reveal the existence of any difference or not, and is less pressurised than blind-testing, so folks should be open to that.

    As for 'night and day' differences between mains leads, that simply doesn't happen.

    If anyone is claiming that, then their system is either broken or they're simply just exaggerating. Mains leads, designed for hi-fi purposes, provide subtle but worthwhile sonic improvements, not drastic ones, the cumulative effect when used throughout a system, can be significant. However, if someone is claiming much more than that, then they're best ignored.

    Marco.
    http://www.thestainedglasscompany.com

    "A man is a success if he gets up in the morning and gets to bed at night, and in between he does what he wants to do" -- Milan Kundera.

    BE HAPPY EVERYDAY!

  2. #222
    Join Date: Jan 2008

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    Quote Originally Posted by George47 View Post
    Of course, some people are prone to exaggerate these differences but that does not mean they do not exist and for some, the removal of a sharp sound to something more neutral means a lot to them. I am not keen on blind tests as everytime they have been done on SS amps people were unable to tell the differences between them. Not a great advert for the test. Does a Naim, Lavardin, Pass Labs and a Class D nCore amplifier sound the same? Listen in a relaxed environment and there are differences that are easy to hear. Do a double-blind listening test and you can't tell the differences between them. If it does not work on SS amps then what chance on subtler effects with cables?

    Use the components to do what they were designed to do, play music in your hifi system. Do not worry about artificial tests that try to solve one problem by creating another.
    Spot on, George, as usual, and you make a good point about SS amps!

    Marco.
    http://www.thestainedglasscompany.com

    "A man is a success if he gets up in the morning and gets to bed at night, and in between he does what he wants to do" -- Milan Kundera.

    BE HAPPY EVERYDAY!

  3. #223
    Join Date: Mar 2017

    Location: Seaford UK

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    I'm Dennis.

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    The pressure to which I refer is that usually DB testing is organised by some authority, for eg., Alan Shaw was baiting his members to meet for one.

    When you have an expert, or academics, and they can often be the arrogant bully objectivists we have discussed on another thread, running a test on you, it can be intimidating and upsetting to normal perception.

    The ambient I/P ruins the perception of subtlety. Have you tried answering an exam question whilst someone is shouting at you about your abilities?

  4. #224
    Join Date: May 2009

    Location: Bristol

    Posts: 4,067

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    Well, I was talking about informal, A/B comparison in your own home rather than double-blind scientifically rigorous testing in a strange/unfamiliar environment. I agree that the latter could be intimidating.

    As for tests and exams, it's many years since I've done any. These days, most academic assessments are based on coursework and 'open-book' exams, which are inherently less stressful than having to memorise shedloads of stuff and be able to call it to mind during multiple exams. Having said that, some people find it stressful having to write essays to deadlines even with all the relevant books and internet resources to hand. A spot of National Service would do them good.

  5. #225
    Join Date: May 2010

    Location: Vancouver, Canada

    Posts: 2,105
    I'm Alex.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    It's natural to experience an element of pressure during ANY kind of test, especially if it's being conducted in a public or unfamiliar place, outwith of the comfort of your own home. Did you feel pressure when sitting exams in school? I know I did. It's human nature, as you want to do well and get [whatever it is being tested for] RIGHT.

    Now, of course it's different if you're simply blind-testing yourself at home, which shouldn't be stressful or pressurised, but as soon as the situation involves being judged by others on the results obtained, that causes pressure, and some will feel it more than others.

    I agree that demonstrating any claimed difference shouldn't be a problem, if that difference exists, and that could take the form of a simple listening test at a bake-off, which should reveal the existence of any difference or not, and is less pressurised than blind-testing, so folks should be open to that.

    As for 'night and day' differences between mains leads, that simply doesn't happen.

    If anyone is claiming that, then their system is either broken or they're simply just exaggerating. Mains leads, designed for hi-fi purposes, provide subtle but worthwhile sonic improvements, not drastic ones, the cumulative effect when used throughout a system, can be significant. However, if someone is claiming much more than that, then they're best ignored.

    Marco.
    I find that even intimate, solipsistic A/B tests conducted in the privacy and isolation of my listening room, with no one present, can be very stressful. I purchase this new interconnect, bring it home, plug it in, and suddenly the angels sing! I hear it right way, from the moment the first sound emerges from the speakers, that now this makes it sound so much cleaner. It sparkles!

    I'm in love, head over heels, I'm so happy I made that change.

    So now the very reasonable thing would be to replace the new interconnect with the old one, to hear how much worse the sound is with the old interconnects. But I find all kinds of excuses not to do it. I push that test for later. Why? Because I feel the pressure, fearing that the newly won happiness is just a placebo.

    I'd hate to be proven wrong, to look like an idiot in my own eyes. So I continue living with this untested situation. Ah, human nature is full of folly...
    Don't you just hate it when you cannot detect where the post ends and a signature line begins?

    Alex.

  6. #226
    Join Date: Mar 2011

    Location: Readimg

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    I'm George.

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    Quote Originally Posted by magiccarpetride View Post
    I find that even intimate, solipsistic A/B tests conducted in the privacy and isolation of my listening room, with no one present, can be very stressful. I purchase this new interconnect, bring it home, plug it in, and suddenly the angels sing! I hear it right way, from the moment the first sound emerges from the speakers, that now this makes it sound so much cleaner. It sparkles!

    I'm in love, head over heels, I'm so happy I made that change.

    So now the very reasonable thing would be to replace the new interconnect with the old one, to hear how much worse the sound is with the old interconnects. But I find all kinds of excuses not to do it. I push that test for later. Why? Because I feel the pressure, fearing that the newly won happiness is just a placebo.

    I'd hate to be proven wrong, to look like an idiot in my own eyes. So I continue living with this untested situation. Ah, human nature is full of folly...
    Now let me make it worse. Supposing you do the blind test and you hear no difference. Do you actually find the music was always there or does the music disappear from your new cable? Imagine all that lovely music gone. Don't do it.

  7. #227
    Join Date: May 2010

    Location: Vancouver, Canada

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    Quote Originally Posted by George47 View Post
    Now let me make it worse. Supposing you do the blind test and you hear no difference. Do you actually find the music was always there or does the music disappear from your new cable? Imagine all that lovely music gone. Don't do it.
    You've just described my worst fear!
    Don't you just hate it when you cannot detect where the post ends and a signature line begins?

    Alex.

  8. #228
    Join Date: Apr 2015

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    I'm Russell.

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    I have heard the argument that as long as the purchaser “Believes”, he hears a difference, then he has his money’s worth. He spends his money to make himself happy, and if he believes it sounds better, and makes himself happy, does it matter if it’s real or not? If he swears that the salt and pepper shakers he has taped to his wires are making all the difference, who are we to burst his bubble?

    Personally I think that’s a load of bullocks, but, live and let live is not a bad motto.

    Russell

  9. #229
    Join Date: May 2010

    Location: Vancouver, Canada

    Posts: 2,105
    I'm Alex.

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    Quote Originally Posted by alphaGT View Post
    I have heard the argument that as long as the purchaser “Believes”, he hears a difference, then he has his money’s worth. He spends his money to make himself happy, and if he believes it sounds better, and makes himself happy, does it matter if it’s real or not? If he swears that the salt and pepper shakers he has taped to his wires are making all the difference, who are we to burst his bubble?

    Personally I think that’s a load of bullocks, but, live and let live is not a bad motto.

    Russell
    Why do you think happiness may not be real and that it is a load of bollocks?
    Don't you just hate it when you cannot detect where the post ends and a signature line begins?

    Alex.

  10. #230
    Join Date: Apr 2015

    Location: Central Virginia

    Posts: 1,253
    I'm Russell.

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    Quote Originally Posted by magiccarpetride View Post
    Why do you think happiness may not be real and that it is a load of bollocks?
    I have no qualms with happiness, but I do have a problem with snake oil salesmen getting rich off of manipulating others. And if your happiness stems from delusions, sooner or later that’s going to wear thin. But, as I said before, live and let live. If someone swears that wooden pucks in the corners of the room are making his system sound better, I would never try to poo poo on their beliefs. . While in my head I may be saying this is baloney, I would smile and nod, leaving them to their happy delusions.

    We are only human and it is near impossible to not have an opinion of your own. The secret is to realize that others are not so impressed with your opinions, no matter how right, or wrong, you may be. And as in most every endeavor, the truth lies in a gray area, almost nothing is black and white.

    Russell

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