Zu Denon and the Technics TT

[thankyoumisterman]

Hello gents, I just joined the forum recently. I have a KAB-modded Technics 1200 Mk2 'table on order, and have just purchased a Denon 103, which I'm also sending on to Zu for their modification. I have read that there may be a problem setting VTA on the Technics with the stock 103 - does anyone have any experience with the Zu version? Would it still require a spacer or some other bit of rig to set it up properly in the headshell so as to attain proper height?

Lots of good information on the forum - part of the reason I decided to search out the Technics was due to the interest being shown this TT. This represents something of a leap of faith for me, as I've only heard the stock version. I liked in general what I heard of it stock, and am getting most of the mods via KAB: Isonoe footers, power supply, tonearm rewiring, strobe disabler, fluid damper, and having the dustcover set up without the hinges so I can completely remove it during play.

I've also read some posts regarding a significantly heavier counterweight used with the Zu Denon, due to its nearly 14-gram weight after modification. Which are you guys using there?

Thanks for the help, and I appreciate the welcome given me here!

[The Grand Wazoo]

This represents something of a leap of faith for me, as I've only heard the stock version. I liked in general what I heard of it stock, and am getting most of the mods

Funny enough, most folks that have taken that particular leap of faith seem to have landed pretty softly so far. Not all, but most.

[DSJR]

Didn't Marco have a brass sleeve-weight added to his Techie counterweight at the time?

You know, the answer is to fork out for a Jelco 750D with heavy counterweight. Not only will it fit the deck and balance out properly, it should provide a perfect platform for the cartridge. It's not silly money either and costs around half the price of an SME 309, to put things in perspective...

[thankyoumisterman]

I thought about the Jelco S-arm, but the cost of buying and fitting it put me off it, so I'll be using the stock tonearm for the time being.

@ Wazoo, you're right - it does indeed seem most people are pleased with their modified 'tables...it's just that a relatively expensive purchase made without hearing it is a bit of a leap.

[thankyoumisterman]

Bump - anyone else have suggestions or experience with this issue?

[chris@panteg]

Hi

Marco is the one to ask ' as he has used the 103 extensively on the 1210 and seems to know it inside out !

[DSJR]

I dunno Arm before cartridge my friends........

Marco's definitely your man for this..

[REM]

Missed this thread until now, I use a Zu 103 on a 1210 but it's definitely not in a stock arm. Not sure what the KAB damping does for the Techie arm but I think the general consensus is that it's more suited to mm cartridges than mc's.

There can be problems using mc's on the Techie due to the siting of the standard ps trannie, again not sure that the KAB psu addresses this or not but would think that KAB themselves are best placed to advise you on that.

Finally, are Zu actually doing any 103s at the moment? Last I heard they weren't doing any more until later this year so you might have to put your aspirations on hold for now anyway.

Apologies for seeming so negative but whatever you decide to do I'm sure you will love what the Techie will do for your records.

Cheers

[thankyoumisterman]

There can be problems using mc's on the Techie due to the siting of the standard ps trannie, again not sure that the KAB psu addresses this or not but would think that KAB themselves are best placed to advise you on that.

Finally, are Zu actually doing any 103s at the moment? Last I heard they weren't doing any more until later this year so you might have to put your aspirations on hold for now anyway.

I will ask Kevin B. about that, but I imagine the PSU should eliminate any siting problems.

Yes, Zu will modify Denon 103s which are sent in to them for $200 plus shipping...they just don't have enough on hand to make a go of offering the carts as a consistently-sourced product. Denon don't make enough for Zu to keep them perpetually in stock.

Which arm are you using on your Technics, BTW?

EDIT: I see now that you have an SME arm on your 'table...

[Marco]

Hi Trey,

My apologies for arriving at this thread so late! Sometimes it's difficult to get round to reading everything

Hello gents, I just joined the forum recently. I have a KAB-modded Technics 1200 Mk2 'table on order, and have just purchased a Denon 103, which I'm also sending on to Zu for their modification. I have read that there may be a problem setting VTA on the Technics with the stock 103 - does anyone have any experience with the Zu version? Would it still require a spacer or some other bit of rig to set it up properly in the headshell so as to attain proper height?

You are right - it is impossible to achieve correct VTA with the DL-103 on a stock Technics tonearm, as there isn't sufficient downwards adjustment on the VTA collar to allow the arm to sit parallel with the record surface. The reason for this is that the 103 is a rather 'low-bodied' design, somewhat different from the Ortofon Concorde and Stanton 500AL DJ cartridges the arm was designed to be used with.

I'm unsure if the ZU body-shell changes that situation, as I haven't used one personally. I get the impression though that it mimics the dimensions of the 103's stock plastic one, although perhaps it's a bit chunkier and adds a little more 'height', so this may make things a bit easier with regard to setting optimal VTA.

In order to do the job properly though, I suspect you're going to need a spacer, which can be obtained from the likes of Dave C at Sound Hi-fi, or since you're in the US, perhaps Kevin from KAB could make one up for you of the right diameter (I would guess around 3-4mm)?

It would need to be very lightweight though in order not to 'over-egg' the mass, as the ZU body-shell already adds quite a bit of weight to the overall equation. I would suggest no more than is physically possible with the overall diameter of the spacer and the material chosen. Ideally, you want something made from plastic or acrylic. Any lightweight non-magnetic material though will do.

Lots of good information on the forum - part of the reason I decided to search out the Technics was due to the interest being shown this TT.

I'm glad that the bug has bitten, as it's a phenomenally good turntable for the money, both as standard and especially when fully-modified.

This represents something of a leap of faith for me, as I've only heard the stock version. I liked in general what I heard of it stock, and am getting most of the mods via KAB: Isonoe footers, power supply, tonearm rewiring, strobe disabler, fluid damper, and having the dustcover set up without the hinges so I can completely remove it during play.

Tell me about leaps of faith! I ordered an SL-1210 MK5G and what you've listed from KAB (along with Isonoe feet and threaded record clamp) - all for exporting to the UK. I had carried out extensive research into the SL-1200/1210 and the whole D/D thing (and also KAB as a company), so I had a good inkling of what to expect, however I didn't know Kevin from Adam, so to speak, and there was I transferring around £1200 of my money to him thousands of miles away without getting anything to show for it until many weeks later!

However, Kevin was a gent and a real pleasure to deal with. Even though I no longer use his products (having now gone the Sound Hi-fi modification route instead) I still owe him a debt of gratitude for his considerable effort in bringing to my attention (and countless thousands of others) this fantastic turntable and how it can be made into something truly special as a device for reproducing music on vinyl to the highest standard.

I've also read some posts regarding a significantly heavier counterweight used with the Zu Denon, due to its nearly 14-gram weight after modification. Which are you guys using there?

You'll definitely need a heavier counterweight to balance out the ZU. I only know of people in the UK such as J7 of Audio Origami (Google for info), but as he's a one-man band he's rather busy, so you may have a long wait on your hands to get one made.

However, I'm currently in discussion with another engineering company in the UK who appear to be most interested in manufacturing bespoke tonearm counterweights to order. When this is finalised, I shall invite the chap onto the forum to introduce his products and services to members, so stay tuned.

In the meantime, have you thought of using the small supplementary counterweight balance supplied with all new SL-1200/1210s, which simply screws into the back of the existing counterweight, thus adding extra weight accordingly?

If you don't have one of these you can order them from KAB. It may just be enough to do the job without the need for ordering a bespoke main counterweight balance.

Hope this helps

Marco.