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  1. #141
    Join Date: Feb 2008

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    And I agree, however; when we look at how each [valve and solid state designs] deals with the constant impedance fluctuations, over frequency response; a valve amp will at least try to maintan the correct power at its output.
    Quote Originally Posted by RothwellAudio View Post
    "Flat response" loudspeakers will only give you a flat response if driven from a constant voltage source.
    "Today scientists have substituted mathematics for experiments, and they wander off through equation after equation, and eventually build a structure which has no relation to reality"
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  2. #142
    Join Date: Jan 2013

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    Quote Originally Posted by anthonyTD View Post
    I should also take this opertunety [while its fresh in my mind] to stress why when it comes to wide power bandwidth [where valve amps are concerned] a good quality output transformer, with a decent amount of iron is necessary!
    Unless you use and OTL amp which means you don't have any of the problems associated with big lumps of iron

  3. #143
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    Ahh, but then first of all; you are limited to the type of valve you can use in the output stage, due to the low impedance needed to drive a real world loudspeaker direct, unless multiple valves in parrale are used, and then you have all the negatives of matching said valves, and the type of circuit, and finally, the risk of directly connecting these high voltage devices [which often fail being run in this manner] to your precious loudspeakers! That's not to say though that OTL's cant be made to work, and perform exceptionaly well, they can, but for me, and in my honest opinion, the negatives out weigh the positives.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jimbo View Post
    Unless you use and OTL amp which means you don't have any of the problems associated with big lumps of iron
    "Today scientists have substituted mathematics for experiments, and they wander off through equation after equation, and eventually build a structure which has no relation to reality"
    Nikola Tesla



    Its now a conspiracy theory to believe that the Immune system is capable of doing the job it was designed to do.
    A fish is only as healthy as the water its swimming in ! [Dr Robert Young]


    www.tubedistinctions.co.uk

    Matthew 5:10

  4. #144
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    I'm James.

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    Quote Originally Posted by anthonyTD View Post
    Ahh, but then first of all; you are limited to the type of valve you can use in the output stage, due to the low impedance needed to drive a real world loudspeaker direct, unless multiple valves in parrale are used, and then you have all the negatives of matching said valves, and the type of circuit, and finally, the risk of directly connecting these high voltage devices [which often fail being run in this manner] to your precious loudspeakers! That's not to say though that OTL's cant be made to work, and perform exceptionaly well, they can, but for me, and in my honest opinion, the negatives out weigh the positives.
    Unless you use MOSFETs in the output stage.?

  5. #145
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    Are we talking Hibrid designs James ? if so, that's a diffrent story.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jimbo View Post
    Unless you use MOSFETs in the output stage.?
    "Today scientists have substituted mathematics for experiments, and they wander off through equation after equation, and eventually build a structure which has no relation to reality"
    Nikola Tesla



    Its now a conspiracy theory to believe that the Immune system is capable of doing the job it was designed to do.
    A fish is only as healthy as the water its swimming in ! [Dr Robert Young]


    www.tubedistinctions.co.uk

    Matthew 5:10

  6. #146
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    I'm James.

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    Quote Originally Posted by anthonyTD View Post
    Are we talking Hibrid designs James ? if so, that's a diffrent story.
    Yes Anthony, I am talking of the Croft Series 7 power amplifier.

  7. #147
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    Ok,
    Hibrid designs can work very well, and combining both topologies, you can overcome some of the short comings in each,[you just have to choose what those are, and what you want to achieve] in my hibrid design I chose to go solid state front end, valve output, where as Glenn, and others decided on the reverse, either way; both can be very rewarding.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jimbo View Post
    Yes Anthony, I am talking of the Croft Series 7 power amplifier.
    "Today scientists have substituted mathematics for experiments, and they wander off through equation after equation, and eventually build a structure which has no relation to reality"
    Nikola Tesla



    Its now a conspiracy theory to believe that the Immune system is capable of doing the job it was designed to do.
    A fish is only as healthy as the water its swimming in ! [Dr Robert Young]


    www.tubedistinctions.co.uk

    Matthew 5:10

  8. #148
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    All this of course ably shows that there's no such thing as the 'perfect amplifier', so as with anything else in audio, all you can do is choose your compromises!

    On the subject of valves, however, I will say (as experience has shown it) that hybrid and/or OTL designs, certainly those I've heard, no matter how well designed, don't sound like the best valve amps should, which is why, as much as I acknowledge what they're capable of doing well, I haven't gone down that road.

    It's an old saying in audio, but quite simply, there's no 'free lunch', when attempting to build an amplifier that on paper is seemingly devoid of any of the vices of either valve or solid-state technology, or is touted as being the 'best of both worlds' (as often hybrids designs are), because in reality that just doesn't exist. You're likelier to end up with a 'master of none'...

    That's because as soon as you address what's worst about valves or transistors, by attempting to 'fix' it, and in turn trying to make it do what the opposite is better at, you automatically compromise (in some way) on what the technology itself [valve or transistor] is inherently BEST at! Hence, no 'free lunch'

    Marco.
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & reg mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat/Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight/Isonoe feet & boots/Ortofon RS-212D/Denon DL-103GL in Denon PCL-300 headshell with Funk Firm Houdini/Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp/Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

    CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.

    Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new, by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from the TCD-420a. Also with matching TM4 Norway microphones.

    Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. LDR Stereo Coffee. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.

    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

    Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.

    Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.


    Protect your HUMAN RIGHTS and REFUSE ANY *MANDATORY* VACCINE FOR COVID-19!

    Also **SAY NO** to unjust 'vaccine passports' or certificates, which are totally incompatible with a FREE society!!!


  9. #149
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 110,012
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

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    Ah I see Anthony beat me to it!

    Marco.
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & reg mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat/Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight/Isonoe feet & boots/Ortofon RS-212D/Denon DL-103GL in Denon PCL-300 headshell with Funk Firm Houdini/Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp/Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

    CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.

    Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new, by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from the TCD-420a. Also with matching TM4 Norway microphones.

    Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. LDR Stereo Coffee. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.

    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

    Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.

    Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.


    Protect your HUMAN RIGHTS and REFUSE ANY *MANDATORY* VACCINE FOR COVID-19!

    Also **SAY NO** to unjust 'vaccine passports' or certificates, which are totally incompatible with a FREE society!!!


  10. #150
    Bigman80 Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    All this of course ably shows that there's no such thing as the 'perfect amplifier', so as with anything else in audio, all you can do is choose your compromises!

    On the subject of valves, however, I will say (as experience has shown it) that hybrid and/or OTL designs, certainly those I've heard, no matter how much they excel in certain areas, don't sound like the best valve amps should, which is why, as much as I acknowledge what they're capable of doing well, I haven't gone down that road.

    It's an old saying in audio, but quite simply, there's no 'free lunch', when attempting to build an amplifier that on paper is seemingly devoid of any of the vices of either valve or solid-state technology, or is touted as being the 'best of both worlds', as in reality that just doesn't exist.

    Marco.
    What kind of valve amp would sound "as it should"?

    Freely available and not the price of a used car please lol

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