LCR phono stages - opinion

[martinswimmer]

Anyone with experience of these? They range form super expensive to relatively affordable / SS or valve / East Europe / China...
I tried the search function but nothing comes back.

Anyone built one?

[bbbiker800]

Hi. I got mine from divine audio via winning ebay bid. Its a Lounge Audio LCR MKIII - built in the USA. It replaced a Musical Fidelity XLPS-v3 and its an excellent upgrade in all departments but none more so than the huge difference in channel separation.

Regards Richard

[montesquieu]

Hi. I got mine from divine audio via winning ebay bid. Its a Lounge Audio LCR MKIII - built in the USA. It replaced a Musical Fidelity XLPS-v3 and its an excellent upgrade in all departments but none more so than the huge difference in channel separation.

Regards Richard

The Aurorasound Vida is an LCR phono stage, I had one and it's superb. They are tricky to make as the design typically requires custom transformers wound to very tight tolerances, something that's not straightforward to organise and typically very expensive. The Aurorasound is the best stand-alone phono stage I've owned, out of quite a few! It's not cheap though.

I have been curious about the LCR phono stage sold by Valab (Vintage Audio Lab) in Taiwan, I've bought quite a bit of stuff over the years from its proprietor, most recently a truly superb single ended solid state amp modelled on the Pass Aleph Mini, and I trust that it would be excellent https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Valab-LCR...sAAOSwkjNZuwQS - it certainly got a super write-up recently http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/LCR-RIAA-shootout.htm Troels puts it almost on a par with the EAR 912 which is astonishing considering the relative price differential.

[martinswimmer]

Hi. I got mine from divine audio via winning ebay bid. Its a Lounge Audio LCR MKIII ...

I've come across that one and seems like a great deal for the money. Would you say that the sound is characteristically "LCR" or the difference is just what one would expect between different phono stages?

[martinswimmer]

I have been curious about the LCR phono stage sold by Valab (Vintage Audio Lab) in Taiwan, I've bought quite a bit of stuff over the years from its proprietor, most recently a truly superb single ended solid state amp modelled on the Pass Aleph Mini, and I trust that it would be excellent https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Valab-LCR...sAAOSwkjNZuwQS - it certainly got a super write-up recently http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/LCR-RIAA-shootout.htm Troels puts it almost on a par with the EAR 912 which is astonishing considering the relative price differential.

Thanks for this - most useful. I've been wondering about this one. I'll head straight to the Troel's shootout instead of bed reading ;-) . I might take a plunge with the Valab.

[martinswimmer]

From Troel's link - "But still, the Valab is doing better than anything else I've heard before the 912 and Grail. Highly recommended! For the money a total steal." Indeed, a rave review!

[farflungstar]

I second Toms opinion about the Vida. I love it ++

[bbbiker800]

I've come across that one and seems like a great deal for the money. Would you say that the sound is characteristically "LCR" or the difference is just what one would expect between different phono stages?

HI Martin - it's dangerous for me to say that it is typically LCR as the Lounge is the 1st of its type I've owned!! . All my previous stages ranged from budget - Project, Slee, MF to a more expensive Leema. The Lounge is comfortably better than those. Compared to the MF there is more detail and realism; more bass and much better separation and depth of image. Voices have a little more warmth but the top end is not at all tiring. So, yes I'm keeping mine. Worth noting it's poor out of the box but it steadily improves with more hours - it needs around 40hrs and then over time you notice small improvements - I'm roughly at 60+hrs. They also do a 'Gold' and I think they are working on a tube version.

[montesquieu]

I'm not sure there is a "typical LCR" sound. The technology required to perform RIAA equalisation is basically simple - it's a curve with three "corners", and only first-order filters. A first order filter has a slope of 6dB/octave and can be made with a resistor and a capacitor, or with a resistor and an inductor. Probably 99% of all the phonostages ever made have filters made with resistors and capacitors. The rest of the phonostage's technology could be based on valves, or bipolar transistors, or op-amps, or FETs, or any combination of any of those. The EQ could be in a feedback loop or not in a feedback loop; it could be implemented as one filter network or split into two or three networks. Basically, the number of possible combinations of circuit elements and design approaches is enormous. Among the hundreds (or more likely hundreds of thousands) of possible design choices there is LCR vs. CR. I think it would be very difficult to hear a "sonic footprint" from adopting LCR amongst all the other design choices.
Tim de Paravicini used inductors in his RIAA eq networks as long ago as the 1990s (or earlier?) but most people have avoided them due to the range of difficulties that they present - weight, cost, size, tolerance etc. Anyway, now the term "LCR" has become a marketing tool recently. That's fair enough: with so many phonostages on the market you have to do whatever you can to make yours stand out from the crowd.
Personally, I don't believe that that one design choice - to use inductors - is the silver bullet which produces vastly superior phonostages.

Indeed it has been something of a badge or differentiator, I guess encouraged by the fact that many of the recently released phono stages boasting LCR have been high end and expensive eg the Vida, Zanden or some Allnic models. (The Lounge was the first LCR phono stage I'm aware off at the 'affordable' end of the market, and the Valab is only the second).

By contrast, the EAR 912 has been an LCR phono stage since its release nearly 20 years ago, as was the earlier 88PB (no surprise really as Tim de P is known for his custom wound transformers - incorporating high-quality inductors is probably straightforward for him than for any other manufacturer currently) but you have to look inside and view the inductors to confirm that, and it's not in any of the sales literature relating to either model. Maybe it should be! (The phono stages in the 88PB and 912 do differ BTW with the 88PB being a hybrid valve + FET, and later the 912 all-valve).

Personally (and having been through quite a few phono stages) I'm quite enamoured of the LCR approach, though totally take Andrew's point that it's all round execution that matters, not any specific technology. I clipped this summary from the web:

In analog history, nearly every commercial phono stage has been based on using RC filters to achieve RIAA equalization. An RC filter is one that uses resistors and capacitors to achieve each of the three 6db per octave "shelves" in the frequency response that constitute an RIAA correction. Most such RC-based RIAA networks require the use of a fairly high value resistor in series with the phono signal coming out of the first gain stage. And some require the use of at least one capacitor in series with the signal, as well. The advantage of an LCR network, used to achieve the exact same RIAA correction, is that it places only an inductor in series with the system, which has very low DC resistance compared to the resistor mandated in RC type RIAA networks. Capacitors and resistors are used as well, but all of these are in parallel with the signal, connected to ground. Theoretically that does less "damage" to the signal, where "damage" can mean different things to different audiophiles. Proponents of LCR type RIAA correction circuits believe that they sound better, pure and simple. However, implementing such a network presents a lot of problems to the designer. Thus = expensive.

Certainly the Lounge Audio and the Valab appear to be attempts to disprove the latter statement and at least in the case of the Valab, to rave reviews. (I have heard variable reports about the Lounge Audio - Petrat had one for a bit).

[martinswimmer]

Personally, I don't believe that that one design choice - to use inductors - is the silver bullet which produces vastly superior phonostages.

Thanks Andrew. You're absolutely right about this being a new marketing acronym. In any case, on the strength of the Troel's review (and correspondence with Tom), I've ordered the Valab. I'll report back!